Black Leadership in Los Angeles: Celes King III
Tape Number: XI, Side One
July 23, 1985
Tyler
Okay, you can go ahead whenever you'd like.
King
Probably one of the most unusual things that is totally unknown as far as the political history of Los Angeles is concerned is the whole, best scenario of blacks in relation to a mayor. This was a situation where Sam [Samuel W.] Yorty—going back now to about early 1960—was always a person who was a political-type person. Political animal, I guess, is what we generally call ourselves. Well, a number of us had sat around, probably five or six people—a couple of people out of the Watts area, couple of folks off the Westside, couple of people out of central Los Angeles—and we were talking about the fact that we were not getting our fair share of activity as it applied to the city government. There had been the vanguard established by a few people with the two-four committee; that was a committee that said that we would politically make an effort for two state senators and four assemblypersons, based upon the reconfiguration of the state, as far as the ten-year period. Every ten years, this state is required to redistrict or establish new political boundaries. Somehow we just felt that the time was absolutely ripe to make the move as far as city government was concerned. Traditionally, in the past, we had had very few
There was at one time in Los Angeles a group of basically Westsiders, basically conservative, honest, wealthy people, who had had a major impact. I think they used to call themselves the Committee of Fifteen. They met on a weekly basis, and they impacted upon what happened in Los Angeles: what city department heads were placed in, and what people went on to commissions, and, by and large, they had a major impact. I think it goes back to Asa [V.] Call and his group, who did an excellent job. They certainly were not in tune with any particular sort of forward movement for this community, but they, in their own minds, felt that they were doing a good job. But they
Anyway, we analyzed the situation and it turned out that even though Poulson had not done a very creditable job in total, that the entire black leadership of the town seemed to be leaning in the direction of Poulson, which was kind of an oddity. Poulson was basically a conservative, basically, and when we say conservative, we're not trying to type him, because it is somewhat difficult, but certainly he was not one who was making any great strides as far as improving the racial impact. Now, you got to remember, 1960 there were not any black members of the city council. The only minority member of the city council that had been there was a Hispanic; that was Ed [Edward R.] Roybal, who, by the way, did an excellent job as a city councilman, but blacks had not moved into that particular level. So we began to think, is there a legitimate possibility of us actually locating a candidate and putting
Would you say the economic impact was blunted or not there because patronage actually had been wiped out some time ago? Was patronage a question, or was it a problem that the mayor just didn't come through, or was there just confusion over politics and economics?
King
Oh, I don't think it's really a mayor's fault or a governor's fault. You got to be out there in business and looking for the business situations or you will get so immersed into the social concerns of a community until most of what you will be doing will not be in terms of hard economics, but will be in terms of programs and grants and things along that particular line, and the level of social acceptance. I think that the emphasis on business—a person who is going to make a success in business has to have a driving commitment to make a success. Now, will you make money if you are successful? Well, the answer is not necessarily, because you can be extremely efficient in terms of what you do and have a lot of the linkage, but that does not necessarily mean that you will be effective as to timing and other kind of things in order to make money. You have to be able to see the opportunity long before it's generally seen, and then you have to begin to energize those things, which in some cases [is] somewhat described as risk-taking. But you have to have access to the information in order to be able to make a fairly
Tyler
With a level of respect and command, not hat-in-hand approach.
From the time that you entered into the garage downstairs, all the way, the respect was there, because the chief executive of city hall respected the people. Just in terms of relating the personal situations, now, because I was community-based, in the sense that I was involved in a lot of community activities, it meant that there was a wide spectrum of folk that I related with. And when I think back on this situation, things that happened that were absolutely amazing to, say— The community just didn't have any big amazement to me at all. My wife [Anita Givens King] had a surprise birthday party for me on one occasion, and half of city hall was at my house, starting with the mayor, for this surprise birthday party when I came in, and I was legitimately surprised. First of all, you know, when you're getting that age, you're not thinking about birthday parties.
Tyler
[laughter] No?
King
[laughter] Yeah. I was in my early forties and my best years, because they were fun years and there was a lot of change that was taking place. And I guess I perceived to some extent that I had some impact on the social changes out there. So I was always— I had a very, very high self-image. I felt that I had done something good, both for the black community, for myself, for my family and for indeed all of Los Angeles, because I felt that these kind of moves
So historically, the bottom line is that Sam Yorty was a black committee's candidate.
Tyler
Now, he served three terms. Did you or members of that committee always feel that Yorty fulfilled his obligations to the black community? Was there some fault in a part of this committee or increasing criticism, alienation, and breakup of this political group?
King
Not at all. Five out of six of us— When it expanded, of course, a little bit. I would say it expanded to about ten people. All ten—I'm sorry—nine out of the ten were there twelve years later. Nine out of the ten. And when you just look back, I mean, the team never left. Team never left. Richard Jones worked in the mayor's office for the entire twelve years. Extremely talented man—
Tyler
Is he still around?
King
Not only is he still around, he's in his eighties now. He is a very viable person, very operative with the major Baptist church, the Second Baptist Church of Los Angeles, and is a state commissioner on aging, appointed by [Governor George] Deukmejian. He is still having significant impact; and in his eighties, he is also one of the vice presidents of the local NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People], was one of the co-founders
Now, Everette Porter first went on as a police commissioner and then later ran for Congress.
Tyler
What? Against [Augustus F.] Hawkins?
King
Against Hawkins. He lost in the primary. Then—
Tyler
What year was that he ran against Hawkins? 'Sixty-four? 'Sixty-eight?
King
I guess it was '62.
Tyler
'Sixty-two?
King
Yeah.
Tyler
That's from the beginning.
King
Yeah, that was when they had open primaries. He later was made a municipal court judge—
Tyler
Everette Porter?
King
Everette Porter. And he ultimately resigned, and then he—
Tyler
Was that an appointment by Yorty?
King
No, no, no. Municipal court judges are appointed by the governor and he was appointed by [Governor Ronald] Reagan. Yorty had a major influence on that appointment. Because Yorty was the person who recommended Everette Porter to the governor. And the appointment was made. So
Tyler
That was true of Judge Billy G. Mills, too, through Yorty's offices; he was appointed later to a judgeship, that family court of law?
King
There was a good deal involved as far as the Billy G. Mills appointment was concerned. There were a lot of us who were involved in that appointment, and it goes really back to the— It had some other kind of political overtones that were involved in it, and Yorty was one of those who was a supporter of that particular situation, because it was what Billy wanted and desired to put together. But it wasn't a heavy Yorty support but the support was there. Another thing that is probably not that well known as far as Yorty is concerned is that Yorty was one of the principal backers of Tom [Thomas] Bradley.
Tyler
How's that?
King
Well, our committee was impressed with Tom, and we met with Sam, and told Sam that we would like to see if it would be possible to get an appointment of Tom Bradley to the city council. There was a vacancy that occurred because Navarro, who had been the tenth councilmember, had run for city controller. He had won the job of city controller, and it left an opening. It was—
Tyler
What was Navarro's first name?
King
As well as I knew him, I cannot really recall.
Tyler
The council was twelve members then?
King
You know, I've really forgotten whether it was twelve or fifteen at that particular point, but anyway, we had five votes, I recall, and it was insufficient in order to get him through. But we had the full support of Sam Yorty.
Tyler
Now, this is 1960.
King
We are now—
Tyler
No, '62, '63.
King
—about '62.
Tyler
Late '62.
King
About '62.
Tyler
Right. Bradley comes in about '63. Now, the council—
King
Well, actually, there was one person in between.
Tyler
Joe [E.] Hollingsworth.
King
Hollingsworth was appointed—
Tyler
By the council.
By the council. And, at that particular time, we were just absolutely certain that a black was going to be appointed, and, of course, when Joe Hollingsworth was appointed, what we did at that particular point was we began to move toward trying to see if we could work with him. It became evident that it would be rather difficult to work with him.
Tyler
Why?
King
Not that he was particularly negative. He just wasn't particularly responsive.
Tyler
To what?
King
Meetings, getting together, just basically maybe the political courtesies.
Tyler
He didn't want to establish a relationship with city hall or the black community?
King
Well, he didn't want to establish a relationship with those of us that perceived ourselves to have some level of political impact that were not a part of the basic Democratic machine.
Tyler
He was a Democrat.
King
He was a Democrat, I believe. That's my best recollection.
Tyler
Or was— I thought his background was from the business community and he didn't have much of a political record, or did he?
No, he didn't have much of a political record. And the acumen that he showed in terms of showing deference to our committee was not there. I can't remember over a very, very few times of even being able to meet with the guy. And, of course, I lived in the district.
Tyler
The Tenth?
King
Yeah.
Tyler
This is part of the Tenth.
King
Yeah. My home is in the Tenth [City Council] District, and I felt that I had, you know, at that particular point, I felt that, both as a constituent and as a person who was involved in political movements— Now, by this time, I had been out on the front line for twelve years or so, in terms of the political arena, because I really started in the early fifties. And our team had kind of started in the early fifties. This is part of the same team that was involved in putting together the black community for Goodie [Goodwin J.] Knight back in, I guess it was '53, when we supported Goodie Knight. In fact, we had the first fifty-dollar-a-plate dinner for any politician given by blacks. So we were really beginning to sense that it's about time now that you have to acknowledge where we are and who we are and that our support is meaningful and that in an environment that has a lot of various groups of political pundits that we were out there
Tyler
Why was there sort of a consciousness since the fifties to be involved in both parties? Or sixties, early sixties?
King
Well, there were some of us that were involved in each of the parties; most, about 90 percent, of course, were involved in the Democratic party, but—
Tyler
I mean of this mayor's committee, that group?
King
The mayor's committee had mostly Democrats.
Tyler
Were they heavily involved in the party machinery?
King
No, no.
Tyler
Oh, they were mavericks like Yorty?
King
We were all, I guess, if you— I don't quite understand the term "mavericks," because it was my view that—
Sort of running off from the group—
King
No, I thought the group was running off from us. [laughter]
Tyler
[laughter] The other way around. Okay.
King
But, I enjoy the use of the term "maverick." I like it.
Tyler
[laughter] The group was running the wrong way. You like to reverse things, don't you?
King
[laughter] So—
Tyler
[laughter] "I wasn't leaving them; they were leaving me." You know, well, that's what a number of people [say] who were Democrats who turned Republicans: "I didn't leave them; they left me." [laughter] What's her name, Bobbi Fiedler. I mean, that was all they argued. "I didn't leave it; it left me." [laughter] A whole lot of Democrats.
King
And, there was interaction and there were a few people who clearly were fighting the battle, and we— It was more fun, really, in the Republican party and more difficult, because there you didn't have a lot of the rhetoric that you had over on the Democratic side. I mean, the rhetoric over there was a little bit different than the actions, but there wasn't any rhetoric. Well, it wasn't just an overstatement, but there was considerably less rhetoric that was over on the Republican side. And on the
Tyler
You mean black commissioners?
King
Black commissioners, in a very, very rapid-fire situation.
Tyler
Nine out of how many possible commission appointments?
King
Well, the number has expanded now, and I think it's up, it's maybe like a hundred and thirty now, but at that time, if I just had to take a guess, I would say, and again
Tyler
Yeah, I guess they didn't wipe out everybody on commissions; they wanted some continuity and stability, right?
King
Sam Yorty's no different than any other politician.
Tyler
He wiped out everybody and put in whole new commissioners everywhere man for man?
King
He wiped out about 80 percent of the people. And those people that he did not wipe out were basically people who were supportive during the final campaign or who maybe had covertly supported by not participating heavily in the Poulson campaign. But if a commission had five people on it, you could bet the family farm that there would only be one left and that would be for continuity.
Tyler
[laughter] Yeah, and he'd be removed shortly, eh?
King
Well, the four of them, you could bet, would go. And there were good reasons. Number one, there was a difference in who was holding the mayor's seat. Persons entitled to their people who have loyalty—their team—and I guess, in a sense, to go the Yorty way. Yorty decided that with our assistance that city hall was going to be opened up, and city hall was opened up. Tremendous
Tyler
Now—
King
No, let me point this out. When you talk about nine commissioners, now, my family came to Los Angeles as a unit in 1938. My grandmother had, of course, been here in 1905, just couldn't make a living, and left. But my family, now, during that period of time, there were never more than, if my recollection is correct, there were never more than three city commissioners. And I think we had mentioned that it was like—
Tyler
The police?
King
—Paul, Paul [R.] Williams, internationally outstanding architect who was very politically active. He was—
Tyler
Republican?
King
—significant as a national Republican. And you had [George A.] Beavers, who was from the largest local business, which was Golden State Mutual Life Insurance Company. And you always had the black spot on the police commission [Los Angeles City Board of Police
Why?
King
Well, number one, there has been a proliferation of commissions and ad hoc committees. Certainly, every time now anything that comes up, the standard situation is to appoint an ad hoc committee to make an evaluation. And the blue ribbon committees have come, and instead of those things, once the report is made, there is a tendency for them to ultimately stay on the books. And when you look now at a situation where— I believe that when Deukmejian went into office I got hold of the plum list, which is really the list of appointments that are available. And, of course, even though you could go to a local library and get the plum list, it is not particularly meaningful just to see it; you have to relate it to what's really going on out there. And I think that there was something like twenty-three hundred appointments that were available to the governor. Now, that twenty-three hundred was only just half of the iceberg because there's another seven or eight hundred where the governor really has impact, but they are appointments within the departments to advisory committees. Now, the advisory committees are sometimes called—
Tyler
Oversight?
King
Well, they have a number of names, but basically they're all really commissions. Some are statutory boards; some are boards created by the department itself. There
Tyler
In the early years. [laughter]
King
Yeah, every person who was appointed a commissioner. You know, I remember the fanfare around my mother's [Leontyne Butler King's] appointment to the library. There'd never been a black on the library commission [Los Angeles City Board of Library Commissioners].
Tyler
So there was a real sense of importance.
King
[laughter] Oh, goodness, yes. I'm telling you—
Tyler
Do you think that that has dampened or harmed black patronage toward politics, because those commissions don't seem like a real reward anymore or something to hand out?
King
Well, what has happened now is that what people must do is that they must now promote themselves in relation to the appointment. And it can be done—
Tyler
To make it important.
King
They have to make it important. And it certainly can be done, but it means now that it takes a lot of work and a lot of effort. You have to probably pay the photographer—
Courtesy of Dept of Special Collections/UCLA Library, A1713 Charles E. Young Research Library, 405 Hilgard Ave, Box 951575, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1575; http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/special/scweb/
http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb9z09p6tg&brand=oac4
Title: Black leadership in Los Angeles oral history transcript : Celes King III
By: King, Celes, 1923-, Interviewee, Kelley, Robin D. G, Interviewer, Tyler, Bruce Michael, 1948-, Interviewer
Date: 1985 and 1987
Contributing Institution: Dept of Special Collections/UCLA Library, A1713 Charles E. Young Research Library, 405 Hilgard Ave, Box 951575, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1575; http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/special/scweb/
Copyright Note:
Transmission or reproduction of materials protected by copyright beyond that allowed by fair use requires the written permission of the copyright owners. Works not in the public domain cannot be commercially exploited without permission of the copyright owner. Responsibility for any use rests exclusively with the user.
UC Regents
Department of Special Collections, Charles E. Young Research Library, U.C. Los Angeles