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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows:
Gloria Molina, Oral History Interview, Conducted 1990 by Carlos Vásquez, UCLA Oral History Program, for the California State Archives State Government Oral History Program.
Preface
On September 25, 1985, Governor George Deukmejian signed into law A.B. 2104 (Chapter 965 of the Statutes of 1985). This legislation established, under the administration of the California State Archives, a State Government Oral History Program "to provide through the use of oral history a continuing documentation of state policy development as reflected in California's legislative and executive history."
The following interview is one of a series of oral histories undertaken for inclusion in the state program. These interviews offer insights into the actual workings of both the legislative and executive processes and policy mechanisms. They also offer an increased understanding of the men and women who create legislation and implement state policy. Further, they provide an overview of issue development in California state government and of how both the legislative and executive branches of government deal with issues and problems facing the state.
Interviewees are chosen primarily on the basis of their contributions to and influence on the policy process of the state of California. They include members of the legislative and executive branches of the state government as well as legislative staff, advocates, members of the media, and other people who played significant roles in specific issue areas of major and continuing importance to California.
By authorizing the California State Archives to work cooperatively with oral history units at California colleges and universities to conduct interviews, this program is structured to take advantage of the resources and expertise in oral history available through California's several institutionally based programs.
Participating as cooperating institutions in the State Government Oral History Program are:
Oral History Program
History Department
California State University, Fullerton
Oral History Program
Center for California Studies
California State University, Sacramento
Oral History Program
Claremont Graduate School
Regional Oral History Office
The Bancroft Library
University of California, Berkeley
Oral History Program
University of California, Los Angeles
The establishment of the California State Archives State Government Oral History Program marks one of the most significant commitments made by any state toward the preservation and documentation of its governmental history. It supplements the often fragmentary historical written record by adding an organized primary source, enriching the historical information available on given topics and allowing for more thorough historical analysis. As such, the program, through the preservation and publication of interviews such as the one which follows, will be of lasting value to current and future generations of scholars, citizens and leaders.
State Archivist
Interview History
Interviewer/Editor:
Carlos Vásquez
Director, UCLA State Government Interview Series,
UCLA Oral History Program
B.A., UCLA [Political Science]
M.A., Stanford University [Political Science]
Ph.D. candidate, UCLA [History]
Interview Time and Place:
May 25, 1990
Molina's office in Los Angeles
Session of one and one-quarter hours
June 1, 1990
Molina's office in Los Angeles
Session of one and one-quarter hours
June 21, 1990
Molina's office in Los Angeles
Session of one hour
July 12, 1990
Molina's office in Los Angeles
Session of one and one-quarter hours
July 19, 1990
Molina's office in Los Angeles
Session of three and one-half hours
August 16, 1990
Molina's office in Los Angeles
Session of one and one-half hours
Editing
Vásquez checked the verbatim manuscript of the interview against the original tape recordings, edited for punctuation, paragraphing, and spellings, and verified proper names. Insertions by the editors are bracketed. David P. Gist, editor, wrote the biographical summary, and Vasquez prepared the table of contents and interview history.
Papers
There exist no private papers which the interviewer was able to consult for this interview.
Tapes and Interview Records
The original tape recordings of the interview are in the university archives at UCLA along with the records relating to the interview. Master tapes are preserved at the California State Archives.
Biographical Summary
Gloria Molina was born on May 31, 1948, in Montebello, California. She attended Montebello public schools, East Los Angeles City College, and California State University, Los Angeles. The oldest of ten children, she played an active part in helping her parents, Leonardo and Concepcíon Molina, raise her siblings.
Molina became a community activist while still a college student and continued that activism as a member of the Comisión Femenil Mexicana Nacional de Los Angeles. She was an early Chicana feminist who helped establish the Chicana Action Service Center, which advocated for the rights of all Chicanas.
After volunteering in several electoral campaigns, she became administrative assistant for Assemblyman Art Torres in 1976. In 1977, she joined President James E. Carter's administration as a staffing specialist in the Office of Presidential Personnel. After two years in that post she became director of Intergovernmental and Congressional Affairs in the Department of Health and Human Services, Region IX office, in San Francisco, California. In 1981, she became the southern California chief deputy to California State Speaker of the Assembly Willie L. Brown, Jr. In that capacity she was the speaker's liaison with the southern California Latino community.
A lifelong Democrat, Molina was elected to the California State Assembly from the Fifty-sixth Assembly District in 1982, serving until her 1987 election to the Los Angeles City Council. During her tenure Molina, the first Latina member of the state assembly, served on the Committees on Revenue and Taxation, Labor and Employment, Utilities and Commerce, chaired the Subcommittee on Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities, and was vice chairwoman of the Committee on Public Employment and Retirement. Her legislation, which focused on the special needs of her constituents, included bills on school dropouts, sexual harassment, state parks, insurance consumer protection, and child safety.
In 1987, Molina was the first Latina ever elected to and only the third person of Mexican ancestry to serve on the Los Angeles City Council. She was elected from a district created by a court-ordered reapportionment. While a city councilwoman, Molina was known as an uncompromising and vocal advocate of citywide issues, as well as issues particular to her own district.
During the course of this interview, Molina was campaigning to win a seat on the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors in a special election held after a court-ordered reapportionment. In January 1991, she defeated Art Torres in the supervisorial election to represent a large portion of the San Gabriel Valley.
With each office Molina has sought and won, she is widely perceived to have overcome powerful opposition from the established Chicano elected leadership. Moreover, while in office, she has managed to push and pass legislation and successfully represent her constituents without strong support from other elected Chicanos. Molina's continuing success makes her prominent among Los Angeles-area politicians, and she is considered the front-runner among a handful of political leaders capable of winning the office of mayor of Los Angeles or an office of major statewide significance. This interview covers all stages of her political and public career as well as considerations of her future in politics and government.
Table of Contents
SESSION 1, May 25, 1990
-
SESSION 1, May 25, 1990
- [Tape 1, Side A]
-
Family origins in Mexico--Family history in Los Angeles--Growing up in Montebello, California-Family attitudes toward education--Experience with languages--Source of encouragement to attend college--Frustrated by gender role limitations--Becoming a legal secretary--Attending college at night--Chicana activism and the Chicano movement--Becoming a feminist--Trying to bring Chicanas together--Meeting Chicana feminists.
- [Tape 1, Side B]
-
Differences between Chicana feminists and the Anglo feminist movement--Establishment of the Chicana Service Action Center--Speaking before the California State Commission on the Status of Women--Role in the Comisión Feminil Mexicana Nacional de Los Angeles--Influence of Francisca Flores--How Chicano movement and women's movement complemented Chicana feminist movement--How Chicana feminist concerns were given lesser importance--Conflicts among Chicanas--Limited conflicts over lesbianism--Meeting activist Richard J. Alatorre during his first legislative race--Molina's first trip to Sacramento to advocate for Chicana issues--Alatorre introduces her to Art Torres--Becoming more knowledgeable about the political process.
SESSION 2, June 1, 1990
-
SESSION 2, June 1, 1990
- [Tape 2, Side A]
-
High hopes placed on Alatorre and Torres-Building an army to support them--What the Chicano movement meant to Molina--Effect of high school walkouts and the National Chicano Moratorium--How her generation of Chicano activists differed from previous generations-How some written history of previous generational efforts would have helped--More on her disagreement with some Chicano movement formulations--Never-ending debates over nationalism--Her doubts about the viability of La Raza Unida party--Working in the Robert F. Kennedy campaign--Working in Torres's campaign-The quid pro quo of fund-raising in politics-Raising money among Chicano businessmen--Working as Assemblyman Torres's administrative assistant.
- [Tape 2, Side B]
-
Going to work with the [James E.] Jimmy Carter presidential campaign--Encountering resistance--Latino affinity with Walter F. Mondale--Trouble finding a surrogate for the main candidates Resistance to Latino needs even within the Carter-Mondale campaign--Appointment to the White House Department of Presidential Personnel--Duties and frustrations of the job--Trying to get Latinos appointed to numerous commissions--Regional differences in how Chicanos approach Washington, D.C., politics--César Chávez considered the ultimate arbiter on Chicano appointments--Desire to return to California--Field office directorship in the Department of Health and Human Services--Chicano appointees in the Carter administration often whitewashed Latino problems.
SESSION 3, June 21, 1990
-
SESSION 3, June 21, 1990
- [Tape 3, Side A]
-
Disappointment with San Francisco office of the Department of Health and Human Services-Resistance to merit pay--Trying to unite Latinos within the department to express common concerns--Why she left that position--forking for Speaker of the Assembly Willie L. Brown, Jr., as speaker's liaison in Los Angeles--Taking time off to work on political campaigns--Brown as a politician and as a statesman--Examples of how Brown. has compromised on principle--Role and effectiveness of Californios for Fair Representation (CFR)--Leaders and tactics of CFR--Her role in the relations between CFR and the assembly speaker.
- [Tape 3, Side B]
-
Recruiting Alatorre and Torres to lobby Brown about reapportionment and Chicano concerns-Challenge to Alatorre from CFR--CFR's greatest contribution--Doubts about the role of the Rose Institute of State and Local Government--What CFR did wrong--More on her role as liaison for the assembly speaker--Desires to elect a Chicana to Congress and being presented with readymade Chicano candidates--Assembly seat opened up by Art Torres's race for state senate.
SESSION 4, July 12, 1990
-
SESSION 4, July 12, 1990
- [Tape 4, Side A]
-
Decision to run for the assembly--Elected Chicano officials decided who would run for office--Chicana feminists' evolving political sophistication--Molina's feminist philosophy at the time--More on differences with Anglo feminists--Segments of the Chicano community that were more receptive to feminist issues-Efforts to minimize feminist concerns--Source of her self-doubt in facing new challenges--Her decision to run for the assembly and the advice of close friends--Her exclusion by the "Golden Palominos"--Meeting with the established political leadership.
- [Tape 4, Side B]
-
More on the meeting with the Chicano political leadership regarding her candidacy--Men's power relationships with each other--The leadership group stalls and avoids making a decision on whether to endorse Molina's candidacy--How Art Torres acted differently from the rest--Torres and Molina exchange campaign endorsements---Torres more supportive of women's- issues-Campaign for the Fifty-sixth Assembly District-- Impressions of the district--Her campaign staff-Devising a campaign strategy--Her reception when campaigning door-to-door.
SESSION 5, July 19, 1990
-
SESSION 5, July 19, 1990
- [Tape 5, Side A]
-
The concerns of older Latinas in her district--Resistance from young Latinos--Argument that she would be ignored as a female incumhent--How image overtakes substance in political campaigns--Pat Bond's assets as a campaign strategist--Use of political consultants--Exchange of "hit pieces" with the Richard Polanco campaign--Difficult decision to use hard-hitting mailings--How monies were raised from women's political action committees--How a newspaper article was leveraged into additional fund-raising--Use of radio ads among a Latino electorate--Financial help from Assemblywoman Maxine Waters.
- Volume 2
- [Tape 5, Side B]
-
Molina's large "freshman class"--Committee assignments--Commission on the Californias--Approached with bills nobody else would consider--Her legislative work on school dropouts--Her weekly schedule in Sacramento--Size of her staff--Difference between being an advocate and an incumbent--Relative insignificance of the women's legislative caucus--Becoming Chicano Caucus chairwoman by default--Discussion of welfare programs--State parties and Olvera Street legislation.
- [Tape 6, Side A]
-
Olvera Street merchants' equity and outside developers--Her suspicion of the East Los Angeles Community Union [TELACU]--How the merchants organized into an association--Los Angeles Recreation and Parks Department's attempts to dismantle Olvera Street--Challenging Alatorre on his intentions for Olvera Street-- Conflict over the issues of merchant equity and whether Mexican-Americans should control Olvera Street--Why public protest was so adamant against the Alatorre plan--City council tradition of not "interfering" in another member's district--Rapprochement reached with Councilman Alatorre--Oversight body needed for Olvera Street--Molina's state legislation on immigration consultants--Immigration bunco programs in Los Angeles and putting teeth into laws regulating consultants--Requiring a legal agreement between consultants and their clients--Sexual harassment legislation.
- [Tape 6, Side B]
-
Male colleagues' incomprehension of the need for sexual harassment legislation--How that legislation has affected employee rights--Assembly frustrations--Inability to move insurance legislation--How partisan posturing on the assembly floor becomes a studied exercise-Example of sexism on the chamber floor and Molina's effort to challenge it--Collegial counsel about protocol--Fair Political Practices Commission and the "Third House"--Her second campaign for office--Relationship betweer. the assembly and the state senate--Her experience with Senator Alfred E. Alquist and the Senate Ways and Means Committee--Role of the legislative women's caucus--Molina's work of the Committee on Health--Her legislation on school dropouts--Trying to make the dropout problem relevant to her colleagues.
- [Tape 7, Side A]
-
How she secured support for her dropout legislation in both legislative houses--East Los Angeles prison issue--Why Speaker of the Assembly Brown was willing to allow a prison in a Democratic district--Governor plays hardball politics with the prison issue--How stopping the prison cost her her dropout legislation--Her decision to run for the Los Angeles City Council--Alatorre preempts her candidacy for city council--Surprise withdrawal of Larry Gonzdlez in the previous election--How the support went to Polanco--How Polanco's subsequent record in the assembly has borne out her opposition to his election--Her effectiveness in the assembly despite her political positions--Her predictions about and current views on Brown's political career.
SESSION 6, August 16, 1930
-
SESSION 6, August 16, 1930
- [Tape 8, Side A]
-
More on Molina's campaign for the Los Angeles City Council--Running a technical campaign and targeting voters--Press exaggeration of the acrimony between Molina and her opponent's supporters--Raising "respectable" amounts of money with many small donations--Alatorre's efforts to steer away endorsements--Differences between her and Polanco--Her reception by the council as a counterweight to Alatorre-Differences between Alatorre and Molina are more of style than issues--How Alatorre operates and how he stopped her liquor violations legislation in the assembly--Her resistance to compromise when it skirts the real issue--Fighting "no-win" situations like gangs in her council district-Improving the state of city and county parks as an example of fighting bureaucracy--Her notion of planned-growth management--Taking stands on citywide issues and intruding into another member's districts--Horse-trading on the council--Her interest in the offices of mayor and of county supervisor.
- [Tape 8, Side B]
-
More on her candidacy for county supervisor--Why Latino candidates are not likely to split the Latino vote--Learning from Edward R. Roybal's race against Supervisor Ernest E. Debs--Why Roybal deserves to be supervisor--Meeting with likely candidates--Terse dialogue with Sarah Flores--Alatorre's liabilities in a race for supervisor--San Gabriel Valley Latino voters-Her preference for coalition politics-Difference between "new politics" candidates and the Alatorre approach--How her political career was helped by its concurrence with a rising women's movement
- [Tape 9, Side A]
-
Why the political process is now very much "our game"--What works for optimum effectiveness--Strategy for every step of an issue--Grass-roots accountability will solve "incumbentitis"-Getting more people involved in the political process---Haw this interview helped her.
[Session 1, May 25, 1990]
Councilwoman Molina, to begin this interview, let me ask you to tell me about your family, where they come from, where you were born, where you were raised, that sort of thing. First, tell me about your folks and your family.
Molina
Okay. My parents come from Casas Grandes, Chihuahua [Mexico]. My mother [Concepción Molina] was born and raised there. My father [Leonardo Molina] was raised there. He was born in Los Angeles. It's a beautiful agricultural valley. And my father came approximately about 1943, 1945. And he came through some kind of a worker program. Like a "bracero" program of some type. Although it might not have been a formal "bracero" program, but something like that where they brought in workers. He worked his way from El Paso [Texas] all the way over to Los Angeles. And throughout those years, he was able
Vasquez
That's interesting. Tell me why he was born here and ended up being raised in Mexico?
Molina
Well, it's interesting. It's a story that we hear about. But all we know is what my uncle has told us. And what my dad has told us is that his father was here. As a young man he had come from Casas Grandes. As many of them used to do, I guess, it was a free-flowing [open] border at the time. And he was married here. Well, maybe they don't speak about it in my family. I'm not sure. Whatever happened is that he was taken back at the age of three to Casas Grandes. And he was raised by the older sister, my abuelita [grandmother] Celsa [Molina]. And even though she wasn't the [real] abuelita, that's what we knew her as. But his tía [aunt] basically. And my tío [uncle] Chón [Esperación Molina], who still lives with my parents today. But we're not sure. I think my family has a tendency to never have anything like. . . . I don't know why, but
Vasquez
Oh. Something "scandalous" like that? [Laughter]
Molina
Something like that. But, instead, we hear that he got taken at three and left there. And that his father came back here and eventually died here. The only thing that I've ever heard from my father that he knows of L.A. as a youngster is that he was brought up somewhere in a barrio near where Sears [Roebuck, and Company] is now in Boyle Heights.
Vasquez
On Olympic Boulevard?
Molina
Right. Right in that area. You know, right by the [Los Angeles] River there.
Vasquez
Yes.
Molina
But I'll tell you. Whenever I ask questions in that regard about what happened to his father and what happened. . . . Where is my real grandmother? And these kinds of things. Everybody gets real quiet about it. So that's just my assumption. And it may be very wrong. We found some press clippings once about a woman
There are pictures that we have of them. And one of the things that's interesting about how my, I guess, abuelito. . . . We just don't know them. How my father's father is dressed in, I guess—what is it—the 1920s. I mean, he's not [in] a sombrero. I mean, he looks slick.
Vasquez
Too slick maybe?
Molina
Well, maybe so. You know. I mean, the suit and, you know, the whole thing. I mean, very nicely dressed for a Mexicano in L.A., I don't know, in the 1920s, late twenties. And, again, his wife. . . . It's so hard for us to relate to them as being our grandparents, because we never knew them. And the wife being, again, very. . . . The dress, the outfit. And maybe it's the way people took pictures at the time. I don't know. So we make up these things as a family, because there are [so many questions]. And I doubt that even
Vasquez
What was her name?
Molina
Celsa. What is . . ? I guess Celsa is her real name. And then the youngest one, my tío Chón . . . . Do I know what his real name is? Anyway, those became [our] grandparents even though they weren't. They were just his uncle and his aunt. But as youngsters, when we used to go visit in Casas Grandes, those were. . . . You know, we always knew her as my abuelita Celsa and my tío Chón. And those are the ones that raised my father. Anyway, that's how he was born here, but raised in Casas Grandes.
Vasquez
Did he go to school here?
Molina
No, no. Both my mom and dad went to school up to the sixth grade in Casas Grandes. Well, my mother actually went only to the third grade. My dad had the luxury of going on to the sixth grade. And could have gone on, because they were landowners. They had little ranchitos [ranches].
Vasquez
Were you raised in a very Mexican home? And what does that mean?
Molina
I don't know if it's very traditional Mexicano, but I guess it's a very Mexican home. I was brought up in a little barrio called—what was it called?—Simons. I guess it's part of Montebello now. At that time, it was sort of an incorporated East L.A. near the Simons Brick Yard. [Laughter]
Vasquez
Yes. Alejandro Morales has written a book on that.
1. Morales, Alejandro. The Brick People. Houston: Arte Público Press, 1987.
Molina
Uh-huh. There are people collecting a lot of information, and [I am] kind of excited about it. But, anyway, we were brought up in that little barrio. We were like other families in that area except that my family. . . . Well,
Vasquez
What kinds of things didn't she like?
Molina
She didn't like the things that went on. We lived not far away from a little pool hall and things of that sort. She always just felt that, I think, in Casas Grandes, everything was right. There wasn't, you know, all of these things that went on. I remember that. She used to have lots of problems with people drinking and partying. And the looseness of everything. Everything was right in Mexico; everything was wrong here. The values were very different. I was very, very sheltered. We weren't allowed to
Vasquez
She didn't allow that?
Molina
Uh-uh.
Vasquez
Why not?
Molina
That was something that took away from the responsibility to the family. You know, if you went off and did things after school, then you didn't come home and take care of the rest of the kids or help with whatever was going on. And everything was always back to the family. The responsibility of the family. And that was
Vasquez
How many of you were there?
Molina
I'm the oldest of ten.
Vasquez
Oldest of ten. Do you want to give me their names?
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
Let's see how your memory is.
Molina
Well, see, it's first myself, and then my sister Irma, then . . .
Vasquez
Middle initial?
Molina
Oh, no. My sister didn't have one. It's just Irma.
Vasquez
Okay.
Molina
And then Graciela, and then my brother Domingo, who we call Mingo. He does have a middle name. Domingo Leonardo. Then my sister Bertha, who also didn't have a middle name. And then my brother Sergio, another brother Danny, or Daniel, the twins and the youngest, Lisa and Olga. I think we got everybody on there.
Vasquez
We're one short.
You've got Sergio, Danny, Lisa, Olga, Irma, Gracy, Mario . . .
Vasquez
Mario. I didn't get him.
Molina
Oh, you didn't get Mario?
Vasquez
Where is he?
Molina
Oh, pobre [poor] Mario. He is in between Bertha and Sergio. He always accuses me of being left out, too. [Laughter]
Vasquez
You bore it out, didn't you?
Molina
I know. That's pretty terrible. He's the sixth, I think. Anyway, there were a lot of us. And my real name is Jesús Gloria Molina. I'm named after my grandmother. My real grandmother.
Vasquez
On your mother's side?
Molina
No, on my father's side. My real grandmother on my father's side. In fact, yes. And my mother never wanted me to be known as Chuy.
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
So they called me Gloria. [Laughter]
Vasquez
Tell me about school, where you went to school.
Molina
I went to Greenwood Elementary School, a public school.
Vasquez
In Montebello, right?
Molina
In Montebello. Right near that barrio. Then the
Vasquez
Oh really?
Molina
But I remember going through, particularly, kindergarten and first grade and just really not knowing what was going on. Having a lot of problems. I remember almost everything in kindergarten. And I think a lot of it is because of the problems that I had. My kindergarten teacher is still teaching in Montebello.
Vasquez
Who is that?
Molina
Mrs. Edwards. I'll never forget her. She's a good person.
Vasquez
What was the attitude of your family towards education and towards discipline in school?
Molina
Well, towards education, it was foremost. It was very, very important that we got a good education. And that served all the way up to
Vasquez
What slang was? Spanish slang? Or English slang? Or either.
Molina
No. He didn't want us to use. . . . Well, Spanish slang. I guess, he didn't use it. Or they did, but didn't know the difference. But I mean, it was English slang. Like you couldn't say, "You guys." For my father it was just a terrible thing to be saying. You couldn't use a
Vasquez
Were you good at French?
Molina
No. I took a whole three years in high school. It was interesting, but I must say I was never [fluent].
Vasquez
Do you think that this insistence on the part of your father has something to do with your command of the English language now?
Molina
Well, I look back at it and I wonder if that's the case. I know with me he was very insistent. I don't know if that was [the reason]. . . . I don't know. People tell me,
Vasquez
You have an almost imperceptible accent.
Molina
Right. But I do remember my father telling me how important it was to learn English and how important it was to speak it properly. And things like that that he just kept [repeating]. But I think my parents had certain expectations of education. And they always knew what was right. In other words, you couldn't disagree and say. . . . For example, I remember that I had problems with spelling. Oh, I guess it must have been in about the fourth or fifth grade. I'm not sure when. And, of course, my mother went to one of those parent-teacher conferences. And they told her, "She can't spell." So she went and got a workbook—one of those you buy at the drugstores. And it was one of those that you do every single night. You know, you learn ten words and you keep [score] on the whole thing. And I remember my mother doing that with me almost every evening until we finished the workbook. She couldn't pronounce the words at all. Sometimes she would sit there and tell me how to spell something. And I'd sit there and
Vasquez
Was it ever a goal?
Molina
My father thought it was nice that I should go to college. My mother felt it was very inappropriate considering the circumstances.
Vasquez
Which were?
Molina
Which were that we were poor. So consequently, "You're eighteen years old. You can go out and work now." [Laughter]
Vasquez
Hit the bricks, huh?
Molina
You got it. But she didn't mean it to be that way. I mean, that's when my dad had his accident. And it was real tough. And so when I
Vasquez
What year was that?
Molina
That was in 1966.
Vasquez
Let me just clear up something, because there's a discrepancy in some of the record. Was it an industrial accident or an automobile accident your father had?
Molina
An industrial accident. My father was in a cavein. My dad was a laborer who worked out in the streets with a jackhammer. And they were in some street, and it caved in on them. I'm not exactly sure where. Somewhere in the Eastside of town. I remember that. So he was in an industrial accident. The other man that was with him was totally paralyzed. My father did a little bit better. I mean, he had a lot of problems after that. He wasn't able to do the same kind of work, but it was an industrial accident.
Vasquez
And this forced you to, what, quit school?
Molina
Well, no. My dad had his accident right around '66, I think. It was the beginning or the end. Or maybe even a year before that. I should remember that. But I remember that it was very, sort of, lean times during that period. And then
Vasquez
What high school was this?
Molina
El Rancho High School.
Vasquez
El Rancho.
Molina
And it was not a teacher, but a person that I worked with after school. Because I used to work in a program after school. She was the one who encouraged me to go on to, at least, junior college. Which is what I did.
Vasquez
Rio Hondo College?
Molina
To Rio Hondo.
Vasquez
What were your better subjects or your favorite subjects in school?
Molina
Well, so much depended on who the teacher was. But I must say, the things that were the most important to me were things [like] history, or civics, or current events kind of things. History related to very real things that happened. So I might have a real dull history teacher and have a real exciting civics teacher. But it all kind of related to civics.
Vasquez
All right.
Molina
My favorite class, by far, in my last two years in school was something called. . . . It was a civics class: "Problems in Social Democracy." And I had a very, very good teacher [who] made it very interesting and very exciting. A lot of it depended on the teachers.
Vasquez
Who do you identify as being most responsible or [having] more [of an] impact on you in your early years? In your formation of political or social ideas?
Molina
Well, people ask me that all the time. And they really. . . . When you say my early years . . .
Vasquez
Say, before college.
Molina
Well, again, it was this teacher that I had in high school [who] used to focus us on [current] events. While most people, like all of us, will read the paper, very few of us ever take the time to understand the implications of [what] events mean and what [they] mean over all. And he used to put that kind of perspective [on] everything that you read in the newspaper: what it meant for the future, what it meant for the past, what
Vasquez
What was his name?
Molina
Mr. [Robert] Walker. He came by the other day, but I didn't get to see him.
Vasquez
Well, how did you. . . . Or when did you decide to go to college? How did that happen?
Molina
Like I said, I was in a college-prep track, I guess, because I did well in certain subjects. But I never had expectations. My idea would be that I would go out and work.
Vasquez
All right.
Molina
But I had this bookkeeper that I worked with after school. I had an after-school job. And
Vasquez
Who was she?
Molina
Mrs. Levesque. Charlene Levesque. She was like a bookkeeper at the high school that I went to. And I worked in an after-school program. We used to get paid for it. If I remember, we got certain credit, and we got paid for it. And she's the one that kept encouraging [me]. Everything that I kept bringing up, I would always look to college as something that you. . . . Because it never had been really introduced. It was only
Vasquez
You, as I understand, went on to study fashion design at Rio Hondo.
Molina
Yes. I had this. . . . Because as a kid growing up, I just felt that was something exciting and interesting and something I thought I could do. We had a neighbor, someone who threw away magazines that I used to pick up. So I used to read a lot of magazines. And I was really fascinated by it all. You know, fashions and everything. So that's when I started looking into that. And, again, sort of [with] that same introduction [from] this bookkeeper, like, "Well, what is it that you want to do?" Well, I hadn't been brought up with [that goal]. . . . I mean, you do that when you're twelve years old. "Oh, this is what I want to be." But when you're seventeen years old, you know, it's very real. What is it that you want to be? Things are happening to you. I guess that's just part of the other thing about being brought up in a very traditionally Chicano family. The expectations were that you were going to get married and have
Vasquez
Did that bother you?
Molina
Did it bother me?
Vasquez
At the time.
Molina
It bothered me by its limitations. Yes, I remember that a lot. I remember saying to my mother that one of the things that I was not. . . . I was not going to get married right away. That I felt that I wanted to work. I wanted to have my own place. I wanted to do these kinds of things first. That I wanted to travel. She thought I was sort of nuts. And so I was annoyed by the limitations that it presented. But at the same time, I was sort of caught up in the fact that there was no planning. No one said, "Oh, Gloria, you know, you can go off and become a teacher. Or you could do this." It was just none of that kind of stuff. This bookkeeper, or friend of mine at that time, kept introducing, "Well, what are you going to do? Well, if you go to college, what are you going to take? What courses are you going to take?" And that's kind of the first time I had been introduced to having to make my
I did know what I didn't want to do. And one of the things that I didn't want to do was I certainly didn't want to become like a secretary to somebody. Somehow there was some problem that I had. Remember those? That I didn't want to do that. And so to me the thing was, "So let's go in and say I want to be a fashion designer." So I went in and started taking these fashion designer. . . . These art classes. Little did I know I had no talent whatsoever. [Laughter]
Vasquez
A lot of "ganas," [enthusiasm] but no talent.
Molina
No talent. [Laughter]
Vasquez
All right. So how long were you in designing?
Molina
Oh, probably a whole semester. [Laughter] Actually, it was probably a year. I remember that even during that first year, one of the
Vasquez
Uh-huh.
Molina
Well, I was working at Sears as a clerk. But, basically, getting ready to go out for a full-time summer job. And I started looking around. The big thing was, "Can you type?" Of course not. I had never taken a typing course other than a basic class that you [had to] take. But I had never really taken clerical courses. I spent that summer taking clerical classes so I could get myself a job. And that's how I became a legal secretary.
Vasquez
That's how you became a legal secretary?
Molina
Which I actually enjoyed doing. I loved it.
Vasquez
Did you?
Molina
Uh-huh.
Vasquez
So that's what took you on to the four-year college courses?
Molina
I never went on [to a four-year college]. . . . After that, after I started working full time, after I landed my first secretarial job, I started going to school only part-time. And I continued going to Rio Hondo at night. Then I
Vasquez
Were you sorry you never did?
Molina
Huh?
Vasquez
Are you sorry you never did? Do you feel you missed anything?
Molina
Well, I feel that if I would have been able to go full-time and all that, I would have been able to join all the other exciting things that my friends were doing, like boycotting classes and being part of the student movement. I still was a part of it in my own way, even though I only went at night. No. Actually, I don't know that I would have missed out that much more. It's interesting because I always felt totally
I was a legal secretary for five years. And I was introduced to the opportunity of becoming an adult education teacher. And I said, "Well, you've got to have a degree. I don't have a degree." They said, "Oh, no. You can petition in." I mean, they had a process where you could make. . . . [Laughter] Anyway, what you could do was, you could petition in at that time and send
Vasquez
Who were you working with?
Molina
I was working for the law firm of Sheppard, Mullin, Richter, and Hampton, which is a corporate law firm in downtown. And I was being paid very, very well. Enough to make me very independent as a young Latina. As a young woman. To have my own car. So when I used to work as a volunteer with a lot of the young women in the Eastside in Maravilla [Housing Project], I found that one of the things they didn't have was
Vasquez
Tell me about that activism.
Molina
It sprang up. Tell you about it?
Vasquez
Uh-huh.
Molina
Well, let's see.
Vasquez
What years, first of all, [would] you consider your activist years?
Molina
Well, a mitotera [busybody].
Vasquez
That's what you get.
Molina
Yeah, right. Well, right. I think all of us that went to school, to college, at the time we did—1966 when I did—we were all becoming, in a sense, more and more aware and more active about the problems that were going on out there. Being
Vasquez
Where? At Rio Hondo College?
Molina
No. At East L.A. College.
Vasquez
East L.A. College.
Molina
Yeah. Because that's really when I [started to get involved] . . .
Vasquez
Tell me about some of your contemporaries at college at that time that were in MASA.
Molina
[Laughter] Well, you know, it's interesting, because I was such a darned good follower. I can't remember a lot of their names. But I remember, Raúl Ruíz used to be a speaker there all the time. I mean, [Alberto] Al Juárez [Jr.] was one of the activists. All of them were there. Percy Durán was a big noisemaker.
Vasquez
What were the contradictory currents? Or was said or done that caused you . . ?
Molina
Well, first of all, there was one overall kind of theme that I couldn't relate to, and that was this whole thing that somebody owed us something. It was always this feeling that, you know, more of a socialist [idea], and a lot of it. . . . Somebody owed us something. And I was brought up with a value system that kept colliding with it. It was, "No. I work hard. And I'll do well. And, you know, everything will be okay. I'll be able to provide for myself." And, sometimes, the conspiracy of the racism, that it's all planned and staged, and we're just
Vasquez
On the basis of being a woman?
Molina
Yes. You could see that every so often. That it
Vasquez
As part of MASA?
Molina
Initially, it started out as part of MASA. They had like a student tutoring program that I signed up for. And I was to go and tutor the kids in Maravilla in the [housing] projects. What was real troubling for me wasn't tutoring. These poor kids couldn't read at all. I mean, that's
Vasquez
Is that right?
Yeah.
Vasquez
You were known as something of a feminist. When do you think you became a feminist?
Molina
Well, I think I became a feminist probably, say, the first time I challenged my father at eleven. [Laughter] I got instantly smeared against the wall.
Vasquez
Take a position and right then you are put down immediately. Is that it? [Laughter]
Molina
And I remember quietly espousing those kinds of things with my mother, you know. And, "Well, you shouldn't let Dad do that to you." And, "Why do you take it? If I were you, I wouldn't do these kinds of things." But it was just quietly I argued with my mother. And then probably other kinds of feelings: talking limitations. How being raised to just be married and to have children, I thought that was very limiting. And then later on feeling that in group settings and group dynamics, like within the Chicano movement, finding ourselves relegated to very secondary kind of roles almost instantly and automatically, because [it was] dictated from one of the guys. Right? So I think that made me feel that there
Vasquez
Consciousness-raising?
Molina
Right. And talking about being more assertive. Actually all those things were going on, and I knew that there was something that needed to happen. I was looking for something though. I remember searching so hard for something, that I wanted to get together with other Latinas to talk about Chicanas. And it was a very hard thing to do. I had heard of the women's movement. I think I may have even gone to a meeting and gotten turned off, because they were all white women.
Vasquez
Oh.
Molina
And I wanted to get together with other Chicanas. And I remember even at that time, I was going to East L.A. College at night. Someone had told me that there was a teacher at Cal State L.A.—and I can't remember her name—and they told me to go look her up. So I went to look her
Vasquez
Of Chicano women?
Molina
Uh-huh. And I remember . . .
Vasquez
Was it Professor Linda Apodaca?
Molina
I don't remember. I can't remember her name. But I do remember going to those meetings with these women. About eight or ten of them. And it turned out to be like a study group more than anything else. It wasn't terribly interesting. I didn't have any real relationship with the other women, because they were all full-time students. I worked and went to school, and I just didn't have the flexibility they did. But I remember looking for something like that. And I remember later on reading about . . .
Vasquez
Why was it hard? Or why did it seem hard to you? That was already in the late sixties, early seventies, right? To come together with Chicanos inside the Chicano organization?
Molina
The Chicanas didn't get together.
Vasquez
They didn't want to?
Molina
They didn't get together and do anything. In
Vasquez
Is that right?
Molina
That's not what I wanted. So there really wasn't anywhere [to go]. I mean, you couldn't go to three other Chicanas and say, "Hey, did you see him put me down? Let's talk about this," and that kind of thing. I think I was probably insecure at that time. But I also didn't see it as a forum by which to be raising these kinds of concerns. I know I had that kind of feeling. And it all eventually evolved. I finally found this place with this group of wonderful women. [This] was when I heard about the Chicana Service Action Center. And the fact that it was opening up. And I got into this, too. Some of the great leaders in our community, like Francisca Flores and . . .
Vasquez
I was going to ask you about her.
Yes.
Vasquez
Was this when you first met Francisca?
Molina
Uh-huh.
Vasquez
What's your estimation of Francisca?
Molina
Well, Francisca and I are so much alike. That's why we've always fought every time we've gotten together lately. We've ended up disagreeing most of the time. She is an amazing woman, who was certainly—I don't know if you'd say—ahead of her times. I mean, she was an activist in the thirties. She probably has the richest history of any of us from the standpoint of challenging and overcoming, you know, problems in the past. Anyway, to me she was an unbelievable inspiration. Being, you know, at that time, twenty-three years old and looking for something. To hear this woman speak and to be so assertive and to know what she was talking about and willing to challenge and to move on. She was just tremendously exciting. That whole group of women really.
Vasquez
Tell me some of the other names.
Molina
Well, Evelyn Benson is still around somewhere. I met Yolanda Nava. Both of us kind of joined up
Vasquez
Lilia Aceves?
Molina
Lilia Aceves. Uh-huh. I'm trying to remember the other woman who was just wonderful from. . . . She's a teacher. I can't remember her name. But those were some of them . . .
Vasquez
What was it that was satisfying about the Chicana [Service Action Center] . . ?
They were saying exactly what I was saying. That is that Chicanas needed to have a full range of opportunities and that barriers needed to be eliminated. One of the first things they needed to do was to be appropriately trained to go in and take jobs. To go in and challenge and do all these things. Develop leadership skills. And so they were saying all of those things. And more than anything else, they had to say, "Tradition was fine. But it shouldn't. . . . It's not going to put us down." To me, it was just what I was looking for, because they had captured just
Vasquez
Why not?
Molina
Well, it's interesting, because we had a lot of dialogue about it. And I remember that's one of the things that I fit in. Even though the Chicanos in the Chicano movement would put us down every so often . . .
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
. . . and we were brought up by sexist dads and so on, yet at the same time we understood that kind of racism that was going on and the problems that were being confronted by Chicanos in general as a community. And so for us to say, you know, as sometimes the feminist movement did, "Men are wrong. And we have to castigate them for their inappropriate conditioning up to now." We felt that it was more of our duty to educate ourselves and the men, and to start those changes. We used to get upset with the Anglo feminist movement because they would use words like "macho."
Vasquez
What kind of things did you engage in?
Molina
What kind of things?
Yes. What kind of programs? What kind of study? What kind of discussion?
Molina
Well, we had great discussions. That was the other thing. Because everything was so new and fascinating that we just. . . . We had meetings that were supposed to last an hour that would go on for four, and talk about all the things that needed to be done. And we did our own consciousness-raising. So we had great dialogue. Great discussions. Well, the other part that was interesting is that, within these women, they were always—and Francisca was the prime example of this, if not the only person that really did it—everything had a strategy. "Well, what are we going to do about it? Well, this is what we've got to do. And then we've got to do this one. We've got to do that. And then we're going to change. . . ." And I had never been a part of that. In the Chicano movement, the only strategy I was involved in is how I was going to mimeograph two thousand copies of the flier. Right?
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
Never was I part of the dialogue of how we were
Anyway, I learned a lot of those things. And one of the very first things that we did is that we were introduced to. . . . They said, "The Commission on the Status of Women [in California] is coming to town. And what we should do is we should go there and tell them about Chicanas and introduce them to what our status is. And also, we've got to have that presentation." And so we
Vasquez
What year was this?
Molina
This must have been 1973. I think. [Interruption]
Anyway, what we were saying about . . .
Vasquez
The Commission on the Status of Women.
Molina
We put everything together. We decided we were going to testify. And some of us were in charge of getting the demographic data, putting that together. We had four speakers, and everybody was going to take on a different role. And we did it. I remember the very first time I spoke in public.
Vasquez
This was the very first time you had spoken in public?
Molina
Yes. It was the most horrifying, frightening situation.
Vasquez
How did it go?
Molina
Well, it was interesting. I mean, I got through it. I survived, as they say. But I remember even the evening before I was trying to figure out how I could get out of there. How I could do
Vasquez
Tell me about that.
Molina
Well, because one of the speakers, one of the Chicana speakers, talked about the stereotypes. It might have even been Yolanda. How those stereotypes were now behind us and we didn't want to be part of these stereotypes and all this. One of the stereotypes was, you know, "We're not all heavyset Mexican women with ten kids hanging . . . ." Talking about my mother. Right? I'm going, "What?" Anyway . . .
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
. . . so there were certain things like that. We did all these things. And one of the things that I was supposed to do. . . . I can't remember what my role was. But I had a formal presentation. I remember they kept telling me to speak up. I
Vasquez
How long did you participate in this thing?
Molina
Oh, for a long time. You know, actually. . . . From that was formulated Comisión [Femenil Mexicana Nacional]. Comisión was sort of in
Vasquez
Comisión Femenil Mexicana Nacional . . .
Molina
De Los Angeles?
Vasquez
De Los Angeles.
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
De Los Angeles, of course.
Molina
A long title. And a whole bunch of us got together.
Vasquez
Now, Francisca had [organized] this before, hadn't she?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
It goes back many years?
Molina
Francisca on her own. Francisca is. . . . Well, there wasn't really a formal organization. She had Comisión Femenil for a long time.
Vasquez
Was it sort of a speakers organization?
Molina
Right. And that's how she wrote the proposal.
Vasquez
That's how she published Regeneración.
Molina
That's right.
Under its auspices. Right?
Molina
That's right. All right. That was all Francisca. Like I said, the Chicanas had this action center, and all of that comes from her writing those proposals [for the] organization of Chicanas. But we really didn't have the network with the organization. . . . [We had] this group of women that would get together every so often. But Comisión became a more formalized kind of thing. And it became a very large network of Chicanas that would get together.
Vasquez
Was that the idea? Building a network?
Molina
Building a Chicana network throughout the state. That there would be chapters everywhere. That all of them would be involved in leadership development through issues in our community. That we would all be involved in taking on whatever the obstacles were for Chicanas. And creating programs to eliminate them. And we became a very strong activist group. It was interesting, because the dynamics at that time. . . . Well, we were just perfect. I mean, the Chicano movement was a complement to us. The things that were going on and the
Vasquez
What conflicts, if any, did you have with the movements? The Chicano movement and other women's movements?
Molina
Well, the Chicano movement, again, every so often would surface about—the whole thing about—you know, "one battle at a time." You know, "Don't . . ."
Vasquez
"Divide the forces."
Molina
Right. Exactly. We would go to meetings, and there would be discussions. I remember one meeting. I can't remember if it was one of the senators—U.S. senators—[Alan] Cranston or [John V.] Tunney. I can't remember. There was a lot of discussion about, "We're going to go in and meet with him. And here are the issues." And, of course, at that time we had been raising employment training for Chicanas as really important. Higher education for Chicanas. And the other thing that was very important was child care, which is so unimportant to Chicanos.
Really.
Molina
Oh, very unimportant. I mean, child care? The women stay home and take care of the kids. I remember the dynamics of that meeting, of bringing it up. And it was exactly treated like that. You know. Very close to saying, "Because they belong home." Almost. But they didn't say it.
Vasquez
Yeah. This was like the late seventies already.
Molina
Yeah. Well, it was in the mid. . . . Early seventies. I don't know. This was around. . . . Maybe '74 by that time. And I remember that we had to work very hard and be very insistent that child care was one of the issues that would be discussed. But it was a debate. I mean, you know. . . . And again, it was, "How dare you? We've got all these other issues." Or it was that whole thing about, "Let's not divide the movement." You know, "Those issues are not important. They're secondary." So we had those little pleititos [disputes]. And, again, with the feminists and with the women's organizations, [these issues] always seemed to be relegated to unimportant kind of things. I mean, they were
Vasquez
Give me an example.
Molina
Well, they were involved in women in higher education and things of that sort. They didn't buy into the discrimination that, you know. . . . It was all one. You were discriminated against because you're a woman, not because you're a Chicana woman. We didn't buy into that. And we wanted it to be understood that if we were going to step in and create a coalition, there had to be an understanding that there is discrimination against us because we are Chicanas. And they seemed to [say], "Oh, no, no, no. You're a woman. That's the discrimination. That's the sexism." And they, too, didn't want to recognize that sexism and racism were one and the same. And so we were constantly involved in little pleititos. But then even within ourselves, we were. . . . We knew what we were doing. And some of us were exerting leadership that offended others.
Vasquez
Why did it offend them?
Molina
Sometimes maybe because we were. . . . I don't know. Maybe it's like anything else. Because
Vasquez
Were you ever seen as dictatorial or . . ?
Molina
Oh, yes.
Vasquez
Or strict?
Molina
Oh, yes.
Vasquez
Are you?
Molina
Yes. I was very aggressive about being involved. A Chicana who [never] took her job lightly.
Vasquez
Now what were you doing for a living at the time?
Molina
Like when I had a final, I used to get very insulting. [Laughter] I have a final.
Vasquez
What were you doing for a living at that time? Were you already being paid for your activism?
Molina
No. Well, during the initial part of it, I was still teaching at the Skills Center. Which is, I think, one of the luxuries that I had, because I worked from eight in the morning till two in the afternoon. So I had all afternoon. I used to be able to devote much more time than somebody who got out of work at six, and I was single. I was just totally intolerant. I mean, the Chicana movement was everything. [Laughter] And if you didn't make your contribution, I used to be
Vasquez
Uh-huh.
Molina
And so I found myself like that. And one of the things that used to bother me so much about Francisca Flores. . . . I mean, she was such a great inspirational leader. But once you got closer to that, she could shoot you down just as easily. And that was one of the things that. . . . Or criticize you, which was really a painful thing to go through. I felt that one of the things that. . . . Even though she inspired leadership, sometimes she had a tendency to jump it. I found myself doing the same thing. And that was when I started realizing that I [had] better start letting other leadership emerge. I think a lot of people were comfortable with my leadership, too. "That's good." You know, "Give
Vasquez
What kind of things did you do as you stepped back?
Molina
I got more involved in politics.
Vasquez
Politics?
Molina
Uh-huh.
Vasquez
We're going to find out what that means in a minute.
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
In Comisión or in the Chicana Action Service Center, was there ever a conflict between lesbians and nonlesbians? Was that ever a problem?
Molina
Uh-huh. [Negative]
Vasquez
Did it ever become a problem?
Molina
Not while I was there. Not anything that became a . . .
Vasquez
An issue, for example?
Molina
No.
Vasquez
Or a debate over theory or whatever?
Molina
No. The only pleito. . . . And I wasn't even
Vasquez
I ask you because it was an important issue at the NACS Conference [National Association for Chicano Studies] in Albuquerque [New Mexico] recently. And I wonder if that ever came up in a setting where you had a concentration of people with the intensity that you seemed to have.
Molina
No. I remember that in the late seventies they had a conference up in San Jose, and it divided the group. I mean, it just divided them, because everybody . . .
On the basis of what?
Molina
They were formulating some kind of a statewide caucus. And somebody raised the issue of, "Are lesbians going to be part of this coalition?" And some people feeling, "Why focus on it?" There are lesbians in all of our Chicana organizations. And there wasn't a lesbian organization that you could just say, "Come on in." At that time, they were just part of it? "And so why make it a focus?" Some of them said, "No. You have to make it a focus, because it is a real problem. And for that, it is important for other Chicana lesbians." So that became the pleito. And from my understanding, it divided a whole conference. Everything went down the tubes at the statewide conference because of that pleito.
Vasquez
Now, you began to get involved in politics. Tell me how you began to be involved in politics.
Molina
How did I begin to get involved in politics? I started out as a very reluctant participant, I guess. What happened with Comisión or with even my activism with the young women in Maravilla is that I found myself attending things like school
Vasquez
Did you know Richard before he became an assemblyman?
Molina
Yes. By accident. I used to work at a law firm when I started working with his ex-wife [Stella Alatorre]. And he used to come in every so often. [Laughter] And it's interesting, because Richard was, at that time, working for, oh, something like the NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People].
Vasquez
NAACP.
Molina
Their education project? Or something? And
Now I remember one of the things that I also used to do was I was a volunteer for the Western Center on Law and Poverty. I was. . . . Because I was a legal secretary. . . . I used to type for Chicano organizations. I would go and volunteer and do these things. And the Western Center was working with somebody else. They had asked me if I would go and volunteer to work on this campaign. It was Ralph Ochoa [Laughter] at the time, I think, and so I volunteered in that campaign.
Vasquez
That's how you got involved in that campaign?
Molina
Yes. But it was only as a typist, in a sense. I
Vasquez
The typist? [Laughter]
Right. The little receptionist that used to work with his ex-wife's law firm.
Vasquez
What was your impression of what you saw?
Molina
Of Richard? He was amazing. You know, he was real informal. I remember being sort of intimidated when I was first going to meet him. Because I didn't know how to address him. And I was, at that time, still very gun-shy about talking to someone in a leadership role like that. But he made it very comfortable. I remember Phil Móntez met us there. And Yolanda and I spoke to him. And we introduced the subject. He said, "Fine." As he usually does. "Fine, fine, fine. I'll set up an appointment. You know, you guys make arrangements to go up to Sacramento. I'll call you. We'll do this." And I couldn't believe it. I said, "Gee, he's going to set it up for us." So he made arrangements for us to meet with then Governor [Ronald W.] Reagan. Yolanda and I were able to scoop up. . . . I think it cost us a whole thirty-five bucks to get up to Sacramento. A lot of money at the time. So we flew up to Sacramento. Met with Reagan for about thirty-two seconds. And then we could
Vasquez
Who did you nominate?
Molina
Ourselves. Yolanda and I nominated ourselves. [Laughter] No. We had a list of . . .
Vasquez
Was this part of your assertive training? [Laughter]
Molina
We had a list of us that we introduced and said that we . . .
Vasquez
It was all Comisión people?
Molina
Right. We were amongst the people. And, of course, none of us got appointed. A Republican by the name of Carolyn Orona was appointed. But it was done. And not only that. Then we went and solicited Carolyn and got her involved in Comisión. [She] became a very active member in Comisión. But that's how I met Richard. And it's interesting, because that's how I got involved, [through] people like him, in his activist role. It was a reason. . . . It was a bridge for the political process. Because we had always been the outsiders who had been critical of what was going on. There was nobody there we could relate to. Why even bother participating?
He was a human bridge for you?
Molina
I think so. For me, it was. And then I participated with Richard. I went to fund-raising [events] for him. I would go out and gather volunteers for anything that they needed. He introduced me to [Assemblyman] Art Torres, told me that there was this young man who was going to be running, and that we would really like him. He started his campaign in '74, I think. I was working, like I said, as a teacher who got out at two o'clock. So I had all of this volunteer time. So all I did was work at getting more Chicanas involved in those campaigns. And most of us who were in Comisión. . . . A lot of them were college students. I mean, politics is just something you just didn't participate in. You just. . . . You know, we were the rock kind of group. And so that started creating the link and the bridge of participating. And it was exciting. Richard and Art were very exciting people for us. I mean, they were the ones that were going to bring about [change]. . . . Because they came from the movement as we saw it, they were going to bring about all the changes that we
Vasquez
Group assistance?
Molina
That's right.
Vasquez
Were you disappointed?
Molina
I can't say that I was disappointed. As I participated through the process, I became more knowledgable about how the system works, and how difficult. That Richard and Art, they didn't mean anything to the big political picture. We needed more Arts and Richards, and that they needed to be smart and articulate, and that they needed to be backed up by all of us. And I really bought into all of that, and felt that our mission was to go out there and build their power base. So if they were powerful, then they could bring us all those kinds of changes.
[Session 2, June 1, 1990]
When we were last talking, you were giving me your initial impressions upon meeting some of the new young Chicano politicians that were becoming eminent on the scene, like Richard Alatorre and Art Torres. Would you pick it up there?
Molina
Sure. Well, they were very exciting. Because I think what we had really know—at least myself—people who had been involved in what we called the student movement. The other Latino politicians were not ones that we. . . . They were already in their place. And very frankly, they were part of the status quo. Having someone like a Richard Alatorre was very exciting for a lot of us, because we felt he came out of that same kind of movement. It was going to carry forward all of those same kind of issues.
Vasquez
Why? Why did you think that?
Molina
Because he had been involved in it. He was going
Vasquez
How many . . ? Go ahead.
Molina
Well, the other thing that I was going to say is most of us didn't participate in the political process. We didn't trust it. Yet at the same time, we knew that it had potential answers. And so the thought that somebody like one of us was now in the political structure [and] was going to
Vasquez
Did it ever seem to you that, perhaps, it was unfair [when they came] out of a tradition that really eschewed Democratic [party] politics? Republican politics? The electoral kind of [politics]? Usually people had already been through that and gotten into another mode of thinking about what buttons of power one can push and what kind of politics one generates. That [it could] be either outside of that realm [of politics] or relatively unfamiliar with it. And then to expect one or two individuals to make a big difference within all those constraints?
Molina
I don't know about the vast majority of them. But I think that most of us just had extremely high hopes. And we pinned them on them. There's no doubt. And in all of our kind of aspirations, we're with them all the time. But there were many of us—and I think that's where I played more of a role—that felt a real duty and a responsibility to them. I mean, they were like
But there's no doubt about it. I didn't learn that pretty much until I got elected. About the kind of hopes that everybody pins on you. And the problems even when you can have a majority or have the support. How difficult it is to really get things done in the political process. But it was a beginning. Well, for us it was a beginning. And we felt very excited about someone like a Richard Alatorre, someone like an Art Torres, [who] were moving through the process. They were within our age group at that time, and they were really. . . . And I think that's true now. I mean, we were not in the age group of the very, very—of the younger people coming out of college then. Chicano yuppies, in a sense. I think they would be very excited about one of their own, let's say, getting into these roles. We don't have that. So there was more of a relationship. And it was pretty
Vasquez
A generational thing, maybe?
Molina
Maybe so.
Vasquez
In part?
Molina
In part. But it was also part of the movement. The movement was very unique. A very unique kind of a time. And it created a unity of people [who] felt that things needed to be challenged. And many went out and did it. I mean, including going out and doing the kind of protest that they did at UCLA, at USC [University of Southern California]. Everywhere where they did the school walkouts. They were all part of that. The fact that [among] this group of people, Richard and Art were looked at as movement type of folks. Now, moving into the political structure, they were going to be able to carry that forward. And I felt our duty out there was to continue to build a kind of army to support them as they went out and did that.
Vasquez
What was the Chicano movement to you?
Molina
What was it? Well, to me it was an awakening [to], I guess, a lot of the racism, a lot of the lack of opportunity. All of the things that we
And then the other thing that it meant for me, it was people who had courage. They had courage because they were. . . . I remember the school walkouts.
1. In the spring of 1968, over fifteen thousand students in East Los Angeles walked out of their classes to protest the quality of education.
Vasquez
What school were you attending?
Molina
I was at East L.A. College when we did the walkout. And to not walk out and to go in and to take the final was really letting down a whole lot of other people that were trying to make a very important point. So it took courage. It took a lot of courage. I was just a follower at that time. But the people who were leaders were being very courageous.
At the [National] Chicano Moratorium, they got hit on the head, beat up, killed in the process of trying to express themselves. But the other part of it that was also important besides the fact that they confronted it is they were also strategists. They had ideas of how to change things. And it was part of a training process. And for me, it was a wonderful education.
Vasquez
You keep saying "they." Is it because you saw yourself as a follower, and by "they," you refer to leaders?
Molina
Yeah. Because I was a follower. I mean, I was
Vasquez
How was it different than, say, Ed Roybal's generation or Tony Ríos's generation. They talked about housing problems. They spoke to racism. They even spoke to discrimination. What was different this time?
Molina
Well, you know what? It wasn't probably very different. But I wasn't there. And I didn't know about them. They didn't tell me about them. I never knew about the kind of things that Congressman Roybal did before he was a congressman. The things that Tony Ríos did. The things that Francisca Flores did. No. There wasn't a book I could go pick up and say, "This is. . . ." You know? I mean, the only thing that I saw that gave me any hope about people from
Vasquez
Really?
Molina
Honestly. My parents. You know, they didn't come from that. And I wasn't around that necessarily. And, like I said, in school they didn't tell us [about] leaders like Ed Roybal and what he did, when he fought, and when he was on the city council, how he got here, how he built a coalition to get here, how he struggled and should have won that supervisorial seat.
Vasquez
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Molina
About Tony Ríos. About César Chávez. About all of them that were involved in the early struggles. Or of Francisca Flores. In fact, even people like Mrs. [Lucille Beserra] Roybal, Lucille [Roybal-Allard]'s mom, who I found out about later. And of Francisca Flores. And Lilia Acevez. All of them had been out there before. They were the stickers and lickers for Congressman Roybal's campaign. How they used to baby-sit each other's kids, so that the women could all go and do something. And, you know, organize this and do that. So, in a sense, they
But the Chicano movement didn't look at them that way. They looked at them as part of the status quo. In fact, in some instances, as part of the problem. And we didn't know about. . . . Or at least I didn't know about their early struggles to build on. But what we also found is that they joined in a sense. They kind of applauded what we were doing. But it probably was very similar. And hopefully what we did in the movement is we are going to have stronger and better documentation that there had been ongoing struggles of those kinds of issues.
Vasquez
That's what I'm trying to get to. Do you think, thinking back on it now, it might have been different had you had access to that information? That knowledge of the history of struggle and organizational effort that had gone on before?
Molina
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Because the things that we were doing. . . . I mean, sometimes we were reinventing the wheel, in a sense, when there were really mechanisms that could have been used. You know, we looked at the American GI
Or at the very least the example?
The example.
Vasquez
The knowledge that [it] had been done [before].
Molina
We didn't do those kinds of things. So it would have been very helpful.
Vasquez
A criticism of the Chicano movement of that period is that it was ahistorical. That it tended to feed on itself as if it was the only and the first effort ever made by the Mexican people. In urban areas, especially, this was the case. You feel that's a fair criticism?
Molina
I would say so, because we sort of operated that way. There was an arrogance about us. There's no doubt. I mean, we were the only ones. The Chicanos. You know, the whole thing. And I look back. I remember when Mrs. Roybal later on told me about some of the things that they did in
Vasquez
There was something you said the other day that left me thinking. There was an intimation that there were elements—or something about the rhetoric or the discourse of the Chicano movement—that at the same time drew you in and excited and taught you so much but also scared you a little bit. Or some things you weren't in total agreement with. What were some of those things?
Molina
Some of those things that used to be troublesome for me were. . . . I was brought up with certain values. The work ethic. And all of a sudden I'm being told that was a Protestant work ethic. You know.
Vasquez
[Laughter]
And I was brought up with this very, very rich work ethic that was really important to me. And it was very Mexicano. Like my father and his father. And that whole thing. All of a sudden, [leaders] told us. . . . And so it created some confusion in me every so often. The whole socialism that sometimes was involved was troublesome for me.
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
Because while I did believe in. . . . Well, I could understand and had feelings that there should be a lot of things that should be kind of socialist, more collective, a lot of things like that. At the same time, I remember growing up at the time of the red scare. You know, the fifties, there were still. . . . Reading the paper, hearing about it in the news. I wasn't smart enough at the time. So there were certain things that frightened me about it. And, hey, they were radicals. And there were a lot of radicals involved. Many times I felt that people were. . . . I looked at things differently. I remember that every so often, we kept looking at the discrimination. And everybody was sort of
Vasquez
Too negative? Or too critical, perhaps?
Molina
Well, I didn't mind so much being critical with the system. I didn't have a problem with that. It's when they wanted to overthrow certain systems that were troublesome. I remember having a. . . . Oh, I can't even remember the discussion. But it was a value thing about the work ethic. Where there were some criticisms of some people that. . . . The "have's," I guess. And it was done in such a way like, "They're not entitled to have those things." And I didn't see it that way. I still saw it as, "Gee, they worked for those things." I just would rather be in a position of, "Can I work for those things,
I now remember that there were certain people within the meetings that would come that. . . . They were carrying out their agendas. They weren't part of what I felt the big agenda was. The Communist party used to come every so often and do their thing. And I just felt like they wanted us to buy into things that were not our agenda. But other than that, it was a great education for me. But I kept my distance from it, too. I mean, there were certain things I bought into and other things I didn't. I was sort of selective about it.
Vasquez
Tell me what you understood by the nationalist appeal of the Chicano movement? How did you understand that it addressed nationalism? What nationalism meant?
Well . . .
Vasquez
You remember the never-ending debates about that sort of thing?
Molina
Well, I wasn't as involved, because I always found myself involved in the actions. Not so much the, "Let's discuss the theory here, right? And let's debate Aztlán." I didn't. . . . I wasn't much involved in all that as I was in [Laughter] if we were going to protest something at one of the schools. Or if we were going to do something. I was involved with a lot of the actions that went with it. I would go, and I would listen to speakers, which they did every so often. . . . But I didn't have the kind of time that other people had. Because I worked full-time, and I went to school at night. And then I used to volunteer at Casa Maravilla on the weekends. So it was just moments that I had to participate within that. But there were certain things that. . . . They just didn't fit, you know, to me.
Vasquez
Like what?
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
Like what?
Molina
Like Aztlán, you know. [Laughter]
Why?
Molina
Because, I guess, it was too revolutionary for me.
Vasquez
Uh-huh.
Molina
It was just too revolutionary for me. I felt that we needed to challenge a heck of a lot of things. But, you know, that one probably was just a little farfetched for me. Certainly, at certain times, it made sense. But it just seemed so revolutionary for me. That, "Oh, we're going to get back Aztlán." [Laughter] And things like that. I mean, those were just a little bit too farfetched. I wanted to see things, and what I participated in, like I said, I would pick and choose. If we were going to challenge something at the school board, we needed to get people there. That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to rally the troops and go in there and dance on the heads of the school board members. Or something like that. And really, hopefully, bring about a change that kids were going to have. But it had to be more tangible for me.
And so those kinds of discussions, I think, were fine for somebody else. But I didn't participate in them all that much. [I only]
Vasquez
Well, there was one. . . . Well, one of the many areas in the political discourse that emerged from that period, and that's the La Raza Unida party. Were you ever active at all in that?
Molina
Not whatsoever.
Vasquez
What was your vision of it then?
Molina
You know, it was interesting. Because in the presentation of La Raza Unida party, I had real problems with it right away.
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
Because I felt, this party is for who? For Mexicanos? I mean, how many of us are there? And what does it do? I mean, what are we . . ? What are the goals here? Well, to me, the way I read Raza Unida, that the very goals it was trying to achieve were the ones that we were complaining about as a movement. That is, not to discriminate. Here was going to be a party of Chicanos and Chicano goals. At least that's what I read into it. And they were going to turn
Vasquez
You're a registered Democrat now?
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative]
Vasquez
Have you always been a Democrat?
Molina
Always.
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
Because my papa was.
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
[Laughter] It's interesting. My father, who was a citizen in. . . . What he did was. . . . Voting
Vasquez
What union? Do you remember?
Molina
Yes. Local 300 of Construction Laborers and Hod Carriers. Anyway. So he would follow that. And he registered to vote as a Democrat. He always told me that was the party of people like us. Of average, low-income people like us. And, certainly, I saw that all the way through in growing up. It. . . . You know, the Kennedys and things of that sort. So that when it was time to register to vote, those were the people I related to and the issues that I related to, even though I really didn't know that much about the other party. But my dad was a Democrat. And I liked the Democrats that were there. So that's what we did.
Vasquez
What is your first remembrance of a political activity that excited you? Or a political
Molina
Well, I think all of us liked. . . . Were excited by the Kennedys. That was very exciting, even though I was a kid and didn't participate all that actively.
Vasquez
But you were active as a twenty-year-old in [Robert F.] Bobby Kennedy's campaign. Right?
Molina
In the Bobby Kennedy campaign. Again, another Kennedy. And, again, right at a time when [I was] sort of involved in the movement and these kinds of things. He was very exciting. And so I volunteered as a gofer, I guess, over at the Bobby Kennedy campaign. I guess I was a legal secretary by then. Or a secretary. And volunteered to do typing and all the gofer work that they used to have done at the time. And participated, in a sense, very actively at the very bottom of the rung. But I enjoyed doing it. It was tremendously exciting, because he was exciting. And being around that whole campaign was very exciting to people. The things that we were doing, the thought of winning, the whole
Vasquez
What did his assassination do to you? To your commitment? To interest and love for politics?
Molina
It was a frightening thing for me, because it was. . . . I was not one of those that got disillusioned like some people that just hung it up. Because that happened with a lot of people.
Vasquez
That's true.
Molina
That, you know, there's never going to. . . . A good one [political leader]'s never going to come out.
Vasquez
Disappointment?
Molina
You know, that's right. It's useless. I didn't feel that way. I was very frightened by it.
What frightened you?
Molina
Well, what frightened me is the fact that he was assassinated. The fact that Robert Kennedy was assassinated. [President] John [F.] Kennedy had been assassinated. And then, you know, those things were frightening. That is that somewhere these good people, who I had hopes for, were never going to be in power or really bring about the kind of change. So those things were frightening to me from the standpoint. . . . Because there's always that feeling that there's somebody who's really trying to really control the big picture, you know, out there.
Vasquez
Have you ever been much of a partisan of conspiracy theories of politics?
Molina
No. But in a sense, it gets introduced every so often. And so you sort of think, "Well, maybe." But to me it was frightening that there was somebody who was trying to stop this wonderful thing, that we all felt so passionate about, from happening. But at the same time, I'm also one who felt that there were other things that. . . . We had to keep it going and keep participating. I mean, it seems like just as
Vasquez
You went on to Humphrey right away?
Molina
Yeah. That we had to. It was part of our mission.
Vasquez
Being a Democrat? Being a reformer? Being a political junkie? What?
Molina
Well, no. I can't say it was a political junkie, because it wasn't. I can't believe it was that. I really felt that these were the people that were going to make those kinds of changes. They really were. The social programs. Everything that [was] talked about. But it is interesting, now that I look back and think about it, how quickly I transitioned from Kennedy to Humphrey. But we did. And we continued going and participating. Again, I was very—still very—low-key. I felt like I really wanted to be a part of it. And there was something there that we should be doing. But it was very low-key. But I don't know why I kept coming back to politics, now that I think about it. Because I was often doing community things, and I got sent
Vasquez
Let's go to, what, I guess, 1970, when you ran Art Torres's campaign. Did you work on Richard Alatorre's campaigns?
Molina
Uh-uh. I had been. . . . Like I said, at that time we had gotten introduced to Richard Alatorre. He had worked on trying to help us get a Chicana on the Commission on the Status of Women. I was helping Richard with fund-raising and campaigning here and there. He was already elected. He said that he wanted me to meet. . . . Introduce me to this other young Chicano who was going to be running for office. And I had heard about the office. I remember he had run before and had just lost to Alex García. But I really didn't know him.
Vasquez
What had you heard?
Molina
What I had heard was that he was a radical basically is what I remember. He's a radical that went in there. And, you know, I really didn't know much about him when he ran. Because it was sort of a low-key campaign. I don't know why. But I do know that he was, again, one of those that was good. He was articulate. He was
Vasquez
What do you remember most about that campaign?
Molina
Actually, it was all the work that we did. I was, again, an outsider to all of it. But this was really the first time I really had gotten introduced to the inner workings of politics. I was still, I guess, in a sense sort of naive how it all happened. That you just went out there, and you did campaign and you rah-rah'd. And behind the scenes, there were people raising
Vasquez
Was this the first time you saw it?
Molina
In a sense, yes. Before I was always so busy. And I never asked, "Why are we doing that? And why not this?" I was more involved and got to see some of that in . . .
Vasquez
Any particular exchanges or incidents that most stick in your mind?
Molina
I went to a meeting. A fund-raising meeting, as it was called. Art needed to get some money together, and he wasn't part of this meeting. There were a whole lot of other people.
Vasquez
What kind of people were they [that you] were trying to get money from?
Molina
They were all the Chicano businesspeople. And, you know, they are still around. A whole group of people that Richard had around him. And Art. Basically, they were hustling the money. And they needed to get the money. I remember how hard-hitting it was about what they had to do. And I
Vasquez
Was that hard . . ?
Molina
It was troublesome for me. Yet at the same time, I was learning the reality of what it was going to take to stay elected.
Vasquez
What did you have to offer these people for their money?
Molina
No. I was just part of the meeting.
Vasquez
Well, your side.
Molina
What do you mean?
Vasquez
What was it you had to offer? You had a candidate that was going to do what for this money?
Molina
Oh. Well, what they were talking about was becoming more powerful. I mean, now we would be able to get, you know, legislation. We would get
Vasquez
Businessmen usually like to exchange for things.
Molina
I can't say it was tit-for-tat kind of thing. They weren't saying, "Okay. I'm going to make it a contract and make sure our interests get met." It wasn't that kind of thing. But it was the idea that if we get him elected, then he's going to be in a powerful position to eventually help you. So it was that kind of a situation. Which was again, in a sense, for me a little bit troubling, because it had the makings of, "I want this. I'm going to give him a check. But he's going to have to promise me that." It was never done as blatantly as that. But I would say that was the sell that was being done that day. And I had never been in the inside of one of those meetings. I mean, we certainly knew about them. But at the same time, I always felt that the money came about because everybody wanted to have a good Chicano/Latino in that role, you know. And here's my little check. It wasn't because they needed something back from it. I learned that much later. [Laughter]
Vasquez
And what kind of people were there? People like
Molina
Well, they weren't formed as yet at that time. Joe wasn't at that meeting that I remember. No, I don't think he was. Gil Vásquez was there. And, if you know, Gil was a lawyer. I'm trying to think of all the. . . . León García, who was at that time head of one of the social service programs [Economic Development Corporation of Los Angeles County]. Gosh, I'm trying to remember these names. One of the guys was a banker. They were all the kind of Latinos [who] were in fairly prominent roles at that time in different positions. And, I think, there was also a sense of pride, that they wanted to elect Art.
Vasquez
Do you remember how much he picked up that day?
Molina
No, I don't. I really don't. I was part of that meeting. In fact, I was also hit up for money. And I was sort of freaked out by the thought of, "Me? Raise that kind of money?" You know. I mean, I was accustomed to hitting up people for, like, fifteen-dollar dinners or. . . . I can't remember what they were. . . . How much was it? But I remember for me it was very difficult to go
Vasquez
All the way you were thinking this way?
Molina
Uh-huh.
Vasquez
You became his administrative assistant [AA] very soon after that.
Molina
Very soon.
Vasquez
Tell me how that happened.
Molina
Well, how it happened. It was surprising to me. I can't say that it had anything to do with my great talents, or anything like that. Lou Moret, who was the administrative assistant to
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
Because I had always sensed that I. . . . As much as I felt politics was an answer to a lot of the issues in our community, that the role that I would always play would be the outside rock-thrower. That's how we learned. And the thought of all of a sudden getting to go into an assemblyman's office and working on his staff and being part of the political process was terribly exciting. And challenging. I knew that. Anyway, I wasn't sure that I was going to be able to do what Art wanted me to do. But I certainly was willing to give it a try, so I went in there. And it was a wonderful experience. I loved it.
What were you doing as his administrative assistant?
Molina
My duties were basically to be his person in the district. He would go to Sacramento and legislate. I would do all of the district work and coordinate him into everything that was important within the district. So I was involved with all the constituents' cases.
Vasquez
Tell me about the district at that time, the district you represented.
Molina
The district I represented was basically all of downtown. Eastside of L.A. So it included areas like Boyle Heights, a part of City Terrace, all of the unincorporated East L.A. areas. It included the cities of Commerce, Maywood, Bell Gardens. And that was basically it. It was and still is, not 75. . . . About that time, it was 75 percent Latino. And it had kind of exciting neighborhoods.
Vasquez
So you did the liaison number.
Molina
I did all of the work. I went out there. And, you know, constituents called us. I tied them into all the schools. I tied them into all the chambers [of commerce]. I tied them into all of
Vasquez
Did you ever have to go to Sacramento and be part of the operation up there?
Molina
No. My duty was out here. He only had a secretary or two secretaries up there. And then, just myself and two secretaries here. Or a secretary and another assistant is all we had. It was a small staff. I did that kind of field work and the political work for him as well here. I did fund-raising for him. I coordinated all of that. I kept all of his fund-raisers happy. I set up all those meetings. All the stroking.
Vasquez
What did you do to keep the fund-raisers happy?
Molina
Well, you know, all of a sudden they start calling. "I need Art to attend this, you know, dinner. I need Art to do this. I need Art at
Vasquez
In some quarters, anyway.
Molina
[Laughter] That's true.
Vasquez
How long was it before you went off to the [James E.] Carter-[Walter F.] Mondale campaign?
Molina
You know, it wasn't all that long. It really wasn't. And the funniest story goes with it. It was, what, I started working for Art in '74. In '75 was actually when I started serving. And in '76, his campaign starts up. And Art had asked . . . . No. I had asked Art, actually. Because one of the things I was finding myself as I was working with Art. . . . It was just so much to learn. So much I didn't know. The thing about fund-raising. The thing about running a campaign. The thing about legislating. How long it takes to do things. All of those things, I
Anyway, one of the things I found myself more fascinated by was—besides now wanting to make changes in Sacramento, the legislative part of it—I became more fascinated by the political part of it. That is, getting other people elected. Now, "What if we had twenty-two Art Torreses, then what could we do?" kind of thing. And why don't we have twenty-two Art Torreses? Anyway, I wanted to learn more about campaigning. There was an opportunity to work for a candidate up in Sacramento. A Chicana. I asked him to send me up there. I went there for two weeks, and I did door-to-door walking and everything. She lost it up there. She didn't make it. Then another opportunity I had was for another Chicana in Fresno. Teresa, who was a professor at. . . . Teresa.
Vasquez
Cordova?
Molina
No. Isn't it Pérez? Teresa Pérez? She's a
Anyway, but that's what I was getting very interested in. So, anyway, then there was an opportunity with the Carter presidential campaign. We knew they were coming to California and everything else. I told Art. . . . I said, "If Carter is going to have an Eastside operation, I really want to get involved in that. You know, take a leave of absence. Or I'd be happy to do that," or something like that.
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
Because I really felt that I really wanted to learn that part of it. Going out, campaigning, doing the grass-roots kind of campaign, you know. Not only that. Being able to now say to Carter, the candidate, "Here's the Eastside. We're going to be able to deliver the vote for
Vasquez
Did you anticipate already that you might one day be doing it for yourself?
Molina
No. See, my big thing was that I wanted. . . . I was finding myself. Well, I really enjoyed what I was doing with Art and the fact that he was legislating. Why, all of a sudden I was developing this goal of becoming a campaign manager. A campaign consultant. I was going to be able to be this person that was going to be able to go out there and tell Teresa and whoever, "This is how you put together a campaign. And you raise money. And you do. . . ." And I wanted to learn how to do that. I even went as far as to get into a program with the National Women's Education Fund. They were doing this program about campaigning. It was called, "Getting Her Elected." They did three-day workshops. I went to that, and it was just a fascinating program, because it was broken down to all the components of campaigning. So with the Carter campaign, I
Vasquez
So you'd come from follower to kingmaker.
Molina
Well, hardly a kingmaker. I was still a follower. And I was out there, going to go and work for Carter. And it was great. I went up and down the state. I met a lot of people. I had some real good experiences. I learned a lot. And it taught . . .
Vasquez
Tell me about some of those experiences.
Molina
Well, I remember one of the things that happened. My job was now to get Latinos throughout the state involved in the Carter campaign.
Vasquez
Involved in which way? Voting? Registering?
Oh, no. Actively involved in the campaign. That is, I had to go into different parts of California and set up the Chicano community to follow into the Carter office or Carter campaign. Volunteers . . .
Vasquez
So you were [working] with political professionals?
Molina
Uh-huh.
Vasquez
Right.
Molina
Hopefully, yes. [Laughter] That's what I was . . . . I was supposed to do that.
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
And I was supposed to tie in this network. You know, Art and all of the elected officials were part of it. So I had to create and find out who the leaders were in different parts.
Vasquez
How did you do that?
Molina
Well, I made a lot of phone calls. I asked lots of people. I called people that I knew to put me in touch with people in San Francisco, and San Diego, and, you know, San Jose. Wherever. And I started making up a list, and then eventually going out there. I had one. . . . And, basically, what I did, I went up there. We
I remember when I went to San Jose. It was the best experience of all, because I went into this meeting. And I think there was a Chicano councilman in San Jose who had arranged this meeting. And he was real hard to get to. He made my life miserable. But he arranged this meeting. It was about thirty-five to forty people that were going to attend this meeting, and I was supposed to make a presentation. He introduced me, and I went in there and did my little Carter speech about the campaign. What we needed to do. Get him elected. What the differences were, and the whole thing. And I remember this woman stood up, and she said, "You know, I'm tired of people like you. You come into San Jose. You're not even from here. You
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
. . . in San Jose. And she says, "Why should we follow?" You know. She was just wonderful. I mean, she really, like, knocked me off my feet. And I had nothing to stand on after she did that to me.
Vasquez
But it didn't discourage you?
Molina
Oh, no. No. No. I mean, she was right. And, of course, that's what I told her. I mean, what else could I say? She was absolutely right. I said, "Look, I come from East L.A. And I don't like anybody coming in from out of town telling me what to do either. And I don't plan to be here to tell you what to do." And I told her the whole thing. I said, "You're right. So you need to organize your own thing. You need to tell me . . . . I mean, I've been hired to do this job. There's only one of me." And I said, "But you
Vasquez
Who was?
Molina
[Clarence L.] "Buddy" James [Jr.]. He did the same thing in the black community that I was doing in the Latino. . . . Going up and down the state. Organizing. Putting people together. He was having tremendous success. He could go into town. I mean, he had a [limousine] waiting for him at home. I mean, he had real royal treatment. Right? I had to go beat the bushes
Vasquez
Why was there a difference in the network?
Molina
I asked him. He used to tell me, "First of all, we have all of our Baptist ministers."
Vasquez
The church?
Molina
"How about just rounding up all the Catholic priests?" I said, "No. No. No. No. [Laughter] That's not how it works in our community." And, see, we didn't have those networks. The other thing is he talked about a black fraternity that he was a part of.
Vasquez
Right.
Molina
And tying into this black fraternity. He called, "Brother. . . ." And he set this up, and all that kind of thing, you know. Or somebody who knew somebody. We didn't have those networks.
Vasquez
You had MAPA [Mexican-American Political Association]?
There wasn't the kind of network that I could buy into. The best thing I had going was having people like Richard and Art and others help me formulate lists in those areas. Going to other elected officials. Going to groups like the Chicano Federation in San Diego, the established Chicano organization in San Diego. The established, established Chicano organizations. And, let me tell you, they were very resistant. You know, as far as they were concerned, partisan politics didn't mean anything to them. They weren't going to get [anything] from it. That whole thing. There was a tremendous amount of resistance. So it was tougher, but we did it. And we organized. We tried to be as successful as possible. And we went through the MAPAs and all that. You know, putting all those little networks together. But very frankly, it was tough. We didn't have the networks—the political networks—in place, let's say, if we were comparing ourselves to the black community. It was just much easier [for blacks]. There were more elected officials. They really had a lot of political networks that
Vasquez
How exciting was the Carter-Mondale ticket to the California Latino?
Molina
He wasn't. He really wasn't. I mean, I hate to say that now. But we had a tough time selling Jimmy Carter in the Latino community.
Vasquez
Why? Tell me some of the . . .
Molina
There was no relationship. None. There was no record. The man was a governor in Georgia. I mean, what's there to relate to? He wasn't a great civil rights leader. There was nothing
Vasquez
Tell me about that.
Molina
Because Mondale had been involved in a lot of the key congressional battles at that time. And that was important. Bilingual education issues and a lot of the labor issues. And he had great labor support. [There] was more of a relationship with Walter Mondale than there was, necessarily, with Jimmy Carter. But he was the top of the ticket. And so, you know . . .
Vasquez
Who did you bring into California? Or who did you bring out from California . . .
Molina
What do you mean?
Vasquez
. . . to campaign for Carter that was most effective? Was there any surrogate campaigner who was effective?
Molina
It was very, very tough to find . . .
Vasquez
The Kennedys didn't want to touch him?
Molina
They wouldn't. It was impossible. It was very tough to get Latino surrogates at that time. I
1. Proposition 14 (November 1976).
Vasquez
How so?
Molina
You have a fight for the candidate. We weren't getting the resources. We weren't getting the attention from the candidate. He wasn't addressing a lot of the issues. He wasn't making the rounds. If, in fact, we were included in any of the rounds where he wasn't doing a fund-raiser
Vasquez
What were the barriers?
Molina
The barriers were that. . . . The barriers that they don't want to tell you. The barriers are that basically they need you, but they don't need you that much. [Laughter]
Vasquez
They need you just a little bit, huh?
Molina
They just need you a little bit. They didn't need somebody like me that kept punching at them to get more time and to get more access and all of those kinds of things. And that's the problem with the Democratic party overall. They need you. But. . . . Now just getting more so. They need us a lot, but they still have yet to realize it. But at that time, as they needed us, they needed to have us in a sense. But they didn't need us that much, you know. And not only that, I think they also took us for granted. "Where else are you going to go?" You know.
So I had to fight really hard. That's why
Vasquez
What did you learn out of that experience?
Molina
Again, what I continued to learn is that we had so much more work to do.
Vasquez
In what sense?
Molina
Statewide. That's when I really started learning about how we needed to connect ourselves statewide to have political leverage.
Vasquez
Is it true that, in a way, there are two or three cities in California? And the rest are just sort of incidental or unconnected?
Molina
They really are.
Vasquez
In Chicano politics [as well]?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
Is that the case?
Molina
Absolutely. We don't have those ties. There's a good group of people in Fresno, in San Jose, in Sacramento. And the smaller [numbers] in Salinas and all of the smaller towns that. . . . I mean, they're very tiny by comparison to L.A. But if we were connected, we could be very. . . . We still have yet to be totally connected. But
Vasquez
At that time, there was something that you could call the Chicano Caucus. Was that of any help?
Molina
The Chicano Caucus was pretty good. Like I said, they were helpful to me from the standpoint of gaining the leverage that I needed within that campaign.
Vasquez
All right.
Molina
I mean, if I needed to call Richard and Art and others, too, "Hey, you guys have to help me lobby to get Mondale into this meeting, or to this convention, or to this dinner . . ."
Vasquez
By dint of being incumbents of the Democratic party?
Molina
Huh?
Vasquez
Then by dint of being incumbents and of the Democratic party, you could reach Carter's people that way?
Molina
Yeah. Yeah.
Vasquez
Who was most effective at that?
Molina
Richard, by far, is really a dealer. He's very
Vasquez
Now, you went from there to the White House.
Molina
Another surprise. [Laughter]
Vasquez
Well, how did that surprise happen? You're just a lady full of surprises.
Molina
You know, I am. And my whole life . . .
Vasquez
Is this serendipity? Can it be?
Molina
I wish I could tell you that I planned all these things. Including planning running for office and all that. It's just not the way things happen to me. I mean, I kept working on certain things, and then great opportunities came about. Although when I was approached, I went back and I started working for Art. I was not very happy with the Carter campaign. I was kind of disappointed. We won, but I felt that they didn't do right by us as Latinos.
Vasquez
In that particular campaign? Or in the Democratic party?
Molina
The Democratic party. I was really kind of disappointed. Anyway, I remember that everybody bombarded me, "My resumé. My resumé. Gloria, send it over to the [White House]. . . ." I mean, I hated to tell them. . . . I was a hired gun. I
Vasquez
You had nothing to give anyone, huh?
Molina
No. And I was very honest with them, you know. I would tell them that, you know. I mean, I have no pull whatsoever. Through Art and Richard and others, you might be able to. So. . . . Anyway, other people did it. Herman Sillas put together a bank of resumés. Other people were doing it, and they were getting into the Carter White House. I mean, I got my inauguration ticket as a little payback. I got to go and sit at this inauguration with three thousand people and not see anything. But it wasn't really. . . . There was nothing that connected us into it. I mean, they just sort of left town. [Laughter] That was it.
I was very disappointed. I was very dissatisfied with it. And not just myself. I wasn't planning on going anywhere. I was going back to work for Art, and I was going to continue doing what I was doing. Because I loved working with Art and the kinds of things that I did. It
Vasquez
Who were the big guys in that campaign?
Molina
Let's see. We had [Patrick H.] Pat Cadell. We had Hamilton Jordan. You had Tim Kraft. Those are the ones that were the real key kind of strategists that I remember. Of course, in the state campaign, we had [Terrence] Terri O'Connell, who was the head of the campaign here. The state campaign. And those were all the key players. In other words, I was the Latino deputy or the Chicano deputy there in D.C., or wherever the campaign. . . . I think the campaign was run out of Atlanta. That's right. Out of Atlanta. Rick was the Latino desk. I mean, sometimes I'd call Rick and say, "I really need to have Mondale at that convention. You've got to [call Atlanta]. . . ." And he would help me lobby that. Or position papers. Whatever we needed. Getting a reporter to interview Carter. Whatever it was, he would help with that.
He came to me and he talked to me. And he was working in the White House. He asked me if I was interested in. . . . No. That they were going to offer me a job at the White House. And I said, "I can't think of going back there. It was just D.C. What would I do there?" But, anyway, it was nice to be asked. And I thought about it. I talked to other people, and they thought it was a tremendous opportunity. To me, I thought it was a great opportunity. But it was so intimidating. The White House.
Vasquez
What was the job . . ?
Molina
At the White House, it was called Deputy Director, Department of Presidential Personnel. That's what I asked: "What is this job that you want me to do?" And what it was was that the president has an unbelievable number. . . . I think it was eighteen hundred boards and commissions that citizens serve on. And, of course, they need a staff of people to pick prominent citizens to serve on these commissions. And that's what we did. There were about twelve of us that did that job. We did nothing but get those resumés.
Read resumés, huh?
Molina
That's right. We had a huge resumé bank. I was assigned to certain boards and commissions that I worked on. And, of course, I was supposed to do the Chicano appointments, right? Of course I had to fight tooth and nail to get some. But that's what my job was. And he [Hernández] asked me if I wanted to go back there, and I decided to do it. Like I said, the reason it was intimidating for me is that here I was all of a sudden going to go into the White House and work with, like, the top political heavyweights. I mean, I wanted to have this political experience and learn how to get our community to leverage ourselves politically. Here was an opportunity to be, you know, right in the know. And I had that opportunity.
Vasquez
You got to be one of the shakers and makers?
Molina
No. That's what was intimidating was the fact that now I was going to get to be there. I was going to be one of these. Was I going to be ready? Was I going to be prepared? Could I do the job? That was very intimidating. In fact, I almost turned it down, because it was the same
Vasquez
You weren't married yet?
Molina
No. So I did go back there. And it was an exciting job. It was a great job. But it was like the campaign all over again.
Vasquez
Tell me about that. I understand you were really disappointed. In fact, you have been quoted as saying. . . . There was something you sensed as an anti-Latino bias there.
Molina
Well, the thing is that here I was. At that time, there weren't any Latinas in the White House. Rick Hernández was there and myself, and Rick was working at that time for the Democratic party outside of the White House. He eventually came into the White House. And it was a lonely place to be. I found out that I had replaced a Latina. I'm trying to think of her name.
Vasquez
Was it on a regional basis or what?
No. It was just across the board on any of them.
Vasquez
Not even in Texas? Not even in California?
Molina
No. I'm talking about in general. Every commission had. . . . You had to to meet certain criteria, the criteria that was set up. But at the same time, one of that. . . . Within that criteria, it never did say. . . . It almost always said there had to be a black on it. It didn't say there had to be a Latino on it. And that was troublesome. So then I used to fight for [whatever] boards I could get. Then I would make sure the ones I worked on would have a Latino on them. So I used to generate the resumés, the names. I would do everything I could to find out what everyone else was doing. Who do they need? You know, "I need a lawyer who does this kind of law. Who has been in practice for this long, ta-ta-ta-ta-ta. From Oregon." We'll go looking for a Chicano in Oregon. [Laughter] You know, that kind of stuff.
Vasquez
What kind of networks did you fall back on?
Molina
Well . . .
Vasquez
Or did you build into the ones that were already there . . ?
Constantly rebuilding them. Within the party, within the congressional members, within the elected officials from the state. Anything that we could do to start pulling in those kinds of names to find adequate people. What used to burn me or what was so frustrating was many times I found wonderful people, just absolutely perfect. And they wouldn't get appointed because they'd get bumped by somebody else. Yet my appointment was just more qualified, more fitting.
Vasquez
So perhaps you were just at the screening level, is that it?
Molina
Oh, yes. That's all we did. We put together these commissions . . .
Vasquez
You screened and recommended.
Molina
That's right. I recommended to my boss . . .
Vasquez
Who was?
Molina
At first, it was. . . . Oh, my gosh. What was his name? He ran for Congress. Arnie Miller. Then he recommended to the president. And that's where my debates were, with my boss. I'd go in and I would say, "So-and-so is working on such a commission here. Or I had talked to them. I
Vasquez
Right. Right.
Molina
And then, I guess, one of the things that was the most disappointing for me was that I wanted to insist on a policy. "The president promised. So I want to hear from your mouth that you're going to appoint Latinos to every position." And what I wanted to do was, of course, get more and more Latinos to be insistent on that. I used to love the Texas guys that came in there. They wanted a Texan on every board. [Laughter] And they usually got it. We in California were not as insistent as that. But, anyway, that's what I did.
Vasquez
Tell me about any other regional differences in the way that Chicanos do politics from California
Molina
Oh, there were unbelievable differences.
Vasquez
Compare for me, for example, the manitos from New Mexico or the Texas Tejanos you mentioned.
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
People from the Midwest. People from California.
Molina
Well, the Texans were, by far. . . . I mean, they just walk in, and this is what they want. And they always came in. They came in threatening and intimidating right away. And they came in with a little bit of power. They came in connected también [also]. You know, they had the good ol' boy congressman with them, and everything else. So it was like already . . .
Vasquez
They had political savvy?
Molina
Huh? Yeah. In a sense. They really were very savvy about how the process worked. Very, very savvy about it. The Latinos in Arizona, I thought, were fairly sophisticated as well. But nothing like the Texans. But California Latinos were not as aggressive as that. And they didn't go in with that kind of unity. Like, thirteen didn't come at you at the same time. You just had somebody who was attending a conference in
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
They met with my boss. If they were going to meet with anybody, it was going to be with my boss. They wouldn't even meet with me. The Puertorriqueños sometimes were about the same way. But they, too, also were very savvy. They
Then the other thing that I learned when I was there. . . . Again, it was. . . . All my arrogance of being from East L.A. is that I never thought much about Chicanos from Illinois or Minnesota.
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
Because we weren't, you know . . .
Vasquez
You didn't think that they were there? Or you didn't think much of them?
Molina
No, no, no. I'm sorry. I didn't think there were many there.
Vasquez
In places like Ypsilanti, Michigan.
Molina
Right. [Laughter] Yeah, it was. . . . It was not many. I mean, that's what. . . . So I
Vasquez
. . . had some reference to, huh?
Molina
Right. Anyway . . .
Vasquez
So you didn't get Potomac fever?
Molina
No. Not at all. In fact, I was turned off very quickly in a sense. There were a lot of things, in fact. The other thing while I was in the White House is that it was troublesome. We really had not arrived. Really. We weren't even there. We were nonexistent.
Vasquez
Weren't you considered "Hispanic" yet?
Molina
Nobody cared about us. We were Mexicans. . . . I mean, you know, having a Hispanic, there wasn't any need yet. There was no sense of urgency. There was nobody who was responding to issues. Here I was in 1975 and 1976 thinking that we were really prominent. Important. But very frankly, as Latinos, we were such a small, little group in D.C. And we had a couple of congressional members. But there was not really anything there. The National Council of La Raza was
Vasquez
What kind of power did it wield? What was the perception of it?
Molina
None.
Vasquez
The council?
Molina
What?
Vasquez
The National Council of La Raza.
Molina
That it wielded?
Vasquez
A lobbying group at best?
Molina
Yes. At best. In fact, I remember once when I submitted a whole series of recommendations of top Hispanics. Because, you know, there were Puertorriqueños and Cubanos. I had done a whole list of people that really deserved appointment. I didn't specify. It was like a memo of, like, twenty prominent people that needed to be appointed to something. I wrote a memo to my boss. I remember what he told me when he gave it back to me. He said, "Well, you know, you didn't put on there whether. . . ." He said, "You have to let me know what César Chávez thinks of these appointments." I was so insulted by that. Because that was the only thing that he
Vasquez
It was a form of patronage, after all, wasn't it?
Molina
That's all it was. Yes. Really, that's all it was. But at the same time, they were prominent commissions that did all kinds of things. . . .
Vasquez
So what did you learn about power in Washington, D.C., that first time out?
Molina
Well, first of all, that we had none.
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
And that made me very angry that we didn't have any. We had to have some. Our issues were much too important for [Secretary] Joseph Califano and HEW [Department of Health, Education, and Welfare] to be ignoring or anything like that. And he did, and they did. So I felt that what I needed to do was go back home and continue working. Because these folks have got to get it straight. I mean, we are important. Our issues are significant. They've got to start addressing us. And we've got to become politically powerful for them to recognize that. But I think it has been an ongoing battle that I have been fighting
Vasquez
Which is?
Molina
That is getting the political powers to recognize the significance of our community: the people and its issues, its problems, and the things that we need to get done. We are still being ignored politically. We're still important to them and we're getting to be more important to them, but not enough to really have them be accountable to us on the decisions. And that was troubling. So, no. I didn't get Potomac fever. I was there for two years. I wanted to come back home. I felt a real sense of duty to come back home. [Interruption] Uh-huh. Okay. A real sensitive duty to really come back and organize all of that.
Vasquez
So the vehicle that you chose was what?
Molina
Well, it wasn't the best way. Actually, I knew I wanted to come back home, and I started looking around. I knew that I just couldn't come back and go back to and just be doing what I was doing with Art.
Vasquez
Why?
I wanted to do something different that was, hopefully, going to give me an opportunity to do more of the kind of organizing that I wanted to do. And to have political organizing ability. So I started looking around, and there really wasn't anything. I wanted to be able to, like, come back and do something within the Democratic party. I really had hopes of. . . . "If I get involved in something, if I could work on something like that, if I could do voter registration, if I could do organizing for the party, I'll really show them how to run it," kind of thing. I started looking, and there really wasn't anything, but I did want to come back home. And then there was one of those appointments where we needed to make a recommendation for a political position in San Francisco. And . . .
Vasquez
What agency was this?
Molina
It was Health and Human Services. It was no longer HEW. So I recommended myself. Of course, I had a friend who had told me about the job. I knew it was coming and all that, so I talked to Rick Hernández and a couple of others, and I
Vasquez
Tell me about that.
Molina
Well, I also felt that they were whitewashing a lot of our problems, too.
Vasquez
For the benefit of?
Molina
For the benefit of just the status quo. Or just to keep going and getting along. I mean, it wasn't good enough for Rick Hernández to be in the White House and Gloria Molina to be in the White House, just to be these token Mexicans there. We really needed to be powerful and bring other people into the pipeline to really make some changes. We got more and more Chicanos in the White House, by the way, in other roles. But there wasn't a sense of urgency to really . . .
Vasquez
There was complacency about their own place.
Molina
Yes. That's what it was. And it was just troublesome. I used to have a lot of problems with it, because I felt we needed to challenge them, you know. I mean, my boss. I was set to kill him the day he gave me that César Chávez
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
I was really disappointed. They weren't the political geniuses that I thought they were.
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
I mean, that was a real disappointment. I mean,
[Session 3, June 21, 1990]
Councilwoman, the last time that we talked, we had gone over your years in the White House and the things that led to a certain disaffection with what you were doing there and your desire to get back to California. Can we pick up the interview at that point?
Molina
Sure.
Vasquez
Tell me how you got back out here to the West Coast again to do health and welfare kinds of work?
Molina
Well, when I first went out there, I said I was going to stay for two years.
Vasquez
Was this the Department of Health and Human Services Regional Offices in San Francisco?
Molina
Right. And there was . . .
Vasquez
The date? Month and date?
Molina
Of what?
Vasquez
Of when you came back to California?
I think it must have been about. . . . The month and the year, I'm not sure. Probably around January of 1979. Because I was only there a year, I think.
Vasquez
What was your role there? What was your job description, as it were?
Molina
Well, I was deputy director, and my responsibility was intergovernmental affairs. What that meant was I had a staff of about six people. Our responsibility was to go out and visit and keep in touch—liaison work—with all the state legislatures for, basically, nine western states and all of the territories. So that we made sure that state legislation was in sync with federal legislation, which were all health and human services—all the Medicaid, Medi-Cal kinds of issues. And that's what we did. So we interfaced with state legislators.
Vasquez
Did it mean a lot of traveling for you?
Molina
It was an awful lot of traveling. But a good deal of my staff did a lot of the direct work. I would go in from time to time when there were certain people that we needed to meet with. But I had to travel into each state's capital for the
Vasquez
What did that traveling do for you?
Molina
Well, I can only say that that job was probably one of the most disappointing jobs I ever had.
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
Because there was no substance to it. It was a prominent position and one that, I guess, anyone should be proud to have. Yet at the same time, I felt that [what] we were doing. . . . We were wasting taxpayer money. The work that we were doing with the state legislatures was important work. But there wasn't enough of it to warrant the kind of staff that we had in many instances. So we found ourselves with having to kind of create work, which is a good thing to do. That is, let's create some enthusiasm so that people will know about what we do and what we're involved in. And, certainly, a lot of the federal issues. I found that when I would get back to my superiors in D.C., they felt like, "No, no, no. Let's not do anything. You know, when they contact us, when they need us, we go in there. In the meantime, just sort of lay low."
Vasquez
But what did you learn about government bureaucracy in that job?
Molina
Well, that there is, exactly like everybody believes, a lot of red tape. People [are] intimidated about making decisions. People want to check off everything before they move on anything that's innovative or creative. A lot of backstabbing. Because there's just so much time on your hands, I guess.
Vasquez
What backstabbing? Well, what's there to backstab about?
Molina
Well, for example, I was a political appointee, and so was my boss. The others were all career civil servants—my staff, everyone else there, including the directors of all the different programs. What we found was that they basically looked at us, who were the directors, as political appointees. Insignificant, you know. Many times when there were policy issues which they philosophically disagreed with, it was literally impossible to get them to implement it. And there was a lot of infighting. A lot of problems. You know, they would get back to the
One of the things that came across the office was the implementation of the merit pay program. The federal merit pay program. They needed somebody to sort of take a lead role in it. And while almost everyone was involved in it, I felt this was terribly exciting to do. Let's see about implementing something new in the bureaucracy. Now, we were going to institute merit into the federal system for the career civil servant. I felt this would be good because there were a lot of people that didn't do anything that were able to continue going and getting their increases, and so on. And,
So I started the process of developing it: sitting down with all the personnel folks, finding out all the guidelines, going through the whole process of doing it. And, oh, the resistance was unbelievable. To think that people would have welcomed it, saying, "Here's an opportunity that if I do a good job, I'm going to get more than the potential. The possibility of more of a cost of living than I get now." But instead, everybody wanted to maintain the status quo. I found that managers were absolutely intimidated at having to rate their employees and rate them other than average.
Vasquez
Why was this?
Molina
Because they were frightened of what that would mean for them and their work product and what they had to do.
Vasquez
So this goes all the way down the line?
Molina
All the way down. From top to bottom. Everybody was intimidated. And it was interesting, because the merit pay program came out of the Carter administration and died within the Carter administration. Because the federal civil
Vasquez
Well, let me ask you this, did partisan political participation on the part of these civil service employees unloosen that built-in conservatism that you talked about a while ago? To sort of maintain the status quo from one administration? From one party to the next? And really become a bureaucracy that just runs for its own ends and not to [implement] anybody's policy?
Molina
Yeah. Well, I mean, I would worry about too much of it coming to federal service. But I do believe if you're a civil servant and you've got objectives that are created by the people who are elected to these positions, the duty of those civil servants is to follow those policies. Now, if you think that it's an absolutely wrong policy, then I think there should be a mechanism
Vasquez
Well, there is one already. Isn't there? The slow down or losing it? Or whatever you experienced? There is a way that civil servants can disagree with certain policy. Just not . . .
Molina
Oh, absolutely. That's what they do. And instead of creating a mechanism to say, "This is wrong for the following reasons," and try to find a way, not compromise, but to negotiate that is just as resistant. Absolute resistance. For example, I'm trying to remember one of the things that we did that was very difficult to implement. It had to do with Medi-Cal funding. I don't remember all the particulars of it. But I remember how difficult the bureaucracy was. I think the administration came out with a whole list of what you can't do anymore. "You can't, you know. . . . Weight reduction doctors aren't going to get to use these funds." And there was a whole list of them. Getting that implemented within all the region was difficult because you basically had a person in charge who felt that that's wrong policy. I mean, you know, and all
I think what I used to see also is that there were some who disagreed with the philosophy or the policies. And yet there was no mechanism for them to really say so. Because that was the other thing that came down from the top: "This is the way it is. It's absolute. And you just carry it out." I know that used to be a kind of a debilitating kind of situation for someone who was very anxious about something and felt that this was a wrong policy. The person that used to work under me was a Republican, a staunch Republican. And as a Democrat, it's interesting. . . . Well, philosophically, we both had differences. He was probably one of the most hard-working people within that department. You know, we would see some of the things that we were going to do. He says, "This is wrong. I disagree with it." You know, we would talk about it. But for the most part, we had to carry out that kind of policy. And he did it very, very well.
So one of the things at least that was wonderful about the whole process I guess is, when the Republicans came in, he became the director. Which is good to see. Well, although not of my political party, he was the kind of person that was very fair and very good and knew enough about those issues and cared enough about them. But, again, the way the process was set up, it didn't give the room either for those employees—those, again, civil servants—that want to make changes, that want to be innovative, that want to be creative, that wanted to really put an awful lot of time and effort in what they do. Because the system just wears you out. People used to call it the "walking wounded." That's exactly what they were. They came into their jobs. It's just. . . . With all of the enthusiasm. And all of a sudden, they just became part of this process. It was a shame.
Vasquez
Well, I sort of have an idea what you liked least about the job.
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
What did you like most about it?
Molina
What I did like was the traveling around.
Vasquez
Before we move onto that, you talk about "we" in a Latino agenda. Tell me more about that. Who's "we"? And what was that agenda?
Molina
Well, I was in this position, and there were Latinos that used to get together and talk about a lot of concerns that we had.
Vasquez
You're speaking about at a lateral level?
Molina
Pretty much. There was no other deputy director. But there were other directors. And it's almost at the same level. Mostly all of them career civil servants, because there were very few political appointees in the region. We used to get together and talk about some of the concerns that we had. And, of course, the
Vasquez
Was the frustration as great there as you saw amongst some of the other ladder-rank civil service employees?
Molina
Absolutely.
Vasquez
Or more so?
Molina
More so, I felt. It was unfortunate. Again, it is so controlled in the way it operates. It doesn't give an opportunity for any of those folks. Unless you just fall into this pattern of playing the game by trying to be an activist or a leader it can be a problem for you as far as upward mobility from time to time. We got involved and went as far as enumerating all of the things we wanted to see changed, and asking Congress—the congressional committee—to come out and to hear our concerns.
Vasquez
As what? A caucus? Or what?
Molina
No. It was more than the caucus, if I remember correctly. Because Augustus Hawkins was part of it as well.
But I'm saying, what did you ask as? As a caucus? As a Latino caucus within the department . . ?
Molina
Well, I can't even remember what we called ourselves if anything. But it was a lot of us that got together and enumerated all of these things. We put together a document that expressed all of the enumerated problems that we saw and what could be done to eliminate a lot of those problems, how we could expand hiring opportunities for Latinos—all of those kinds of things. This was not just within Health and Human Services. We're talking about all of the regional offices. We had [the Department of] Commerce. We had the [Department of] Education at that time which was just barely beginning. But all of the different regional offices that you have under the various departments. And we sent it. I can't remember if we sent it to the Chicano Caucus at first or whether we went right to the [United States House of Representatives Committee on Education and Labor]. I remember Congressman Ed Roybal was part of that committee, because he came out and conducted some of these
I didn't stay long enough to see exactly what happened with all of that. But that was part of what we were doing. I—again, not being a career civil servant—was not as familiar to what happens when you are a career civil servant, or a Chicano career civil servant, when it comes to employment opportunities, upward mobility, and so on. So I was getting a lot of information. And I would interface with my personnel department with regard to what we were doing. How these interview panels worked and things of that. . . . It's a very involved and intricate system. How I could make it so that our personnel department was more effective in eliminating any barriers to upward mobility for Chicanos. So I did those kind of things.
It wasn't a long period of time. It was a short period of time. I guess I got involved in those kinds of things. So we basically had so much time on our hands from this non-job that I had in managing the congressional liaison. It was fine, and we did okay, but like I said, it
Vasquez
So you left when? January of the following year, pretty much?
Molina
Let's see. Reagan was elected when? In 1980, right?
Vasquez
Yes.
Molina
I must have left in . . .
Vasquez
'Eighty-one.
Molina
In January of '81.
Vasquez
Then where did you go? You were then appointed to chief of staff of Willie Brown?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
Is that right?
Molina
That's an interesting . . .
Vasquez
How did that take place?
Molina
Well, it's interesting how it took place. Because I have one interpretation and, I guess, others would have another. And now I look back. What happened is I wanted to come home desperately.
Vasquez
Home now means Los Angeles?
Molina
L.A., yes. So I was trying to figure out what
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
It was a really difficult thing for me to deal with. I said, "What is it that I want to do?" This was a point in time that I was thinking, "Should I go back to school and finish a degree? What should I do?" And I certainly think about all these different things. One of the things that came about was becoming. . . . Because I became very familiar with lobbying and lobbyists, the possibility of doing that kind of work. I didn't want to do it necessarily for a corporate kind of a situation. But I thought interfacing with state legislators—and doing that kind of thing—and promoting good policies. Good legislation was something I thought I could do. So I started looking around. I think the only thing that I found that was somewhat interesting was working for the California Rural Legal Assistance. They needed a Sacramento lobbyist, and I started talking to them. At the same time, I was talking to Art,
Vasquez
Did they recommend you?
Molina
They recommended me. Basically, their recommendation got me the job. Because I went in there, and I interviewed. I thought, "Gee, Willie thought I could do a real good job for him. So that's why he hired me." But, basically, he hired me because Richard and Art said, "Do it," you know. Whatever payback kind of political situation that was, I don't know. At that time I really felt that I had gotten the job on my experience, background, and my own merits. But now that I look back, I think it was just somebody told him to do it. And he said, "Hey, what the hell?"
Vasquez
Was that wrong?
Molina
I guess what was bothersome for me about that when I looked back is that I really felt I had a lot to offer. And to be just pushed into a job, and saying, "Here's my friend. Do it for me,"
Vasquez
By?
Molina
By people like Art Torres and Lou Moret.
Vasquez
On a payback situation?
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative]
Vasquez
Did you get an opportunity once you got into office to exhibit your capacity? Your ability?
Molina
Oh, probably more so than he wanted to know about it, Willie Brown. [Laughter]
Vasquez
Tell me about that. [Laughter]
Molina
Well, what happened is that his office here was also basically a liaison position. I was in L.A. I was sort of his chief-of-staff in L.A. And there were about five others that worked in the office. Basically, what we did is what . . .
Vasquez
Who were those people? Do you remember their names?
Molina
Oh. Well, Marguerite Archie, who is now
Vasquez
Yes.
Molina
. . . to the state legislature. Dorothy Walker. Was it Dorothy Walker? Why can't I . . ? No, it was Dorothy Tucker, who is an activist still. Linda Unruh, who is Jesse [M.] Unruh's daughter. And Steve [Smith]. I can't remember his last name. And Kevin Acebo. All of us had liaison responsibilities to certain segments of the community. I to the Chicanos, Marguerite to blacks, Kevin to Asians, Steven to the gay community, Linda Unruh to the labor community. Our responsibility was to be in touch. Be the eyes and ears of the speaker on various issues to those communities. And also to—well, as we did—to generate any legislation that was needed by these groups. We also dealt with every single Democratic—basically Democratic—legislator who needed us for anything here. We assisted in all the hearings and all of that. So we kept very busy. There was a lot of work for us to do. And I managed that staff.
Vasquez
It wasn't another make-work job?
In a sense, it was.
Vasquez
In what sense?
Molina
But I made it more than that. Because, you know, I think you could just sit there and wait for Willie to call you. And that would have made him just as happy. What I did instead is I kept a very active calendar of where my staff was going, what they were doing. "When should we get Willie to interface with labor leaders? What's a good time? Let's plan for that, so I can get them scheduled here. What are the highlights of what we're going to be doing in the black community?" Things of that sort. "What kind of hearings?" I was, you know. . . . So I made it a big thing when . . .
Vasquez
How was it different from a scheduling secretary?
Molina
Well, it was different because we also had to be analyzing and looking at the political situations that were going on and what that meant. For example, during that . . .
Vasquez
Anticipating things?
Molina
Absolutely. At that time, one of the things that was beginning to happen was reapportionment.
Vasquez
I want to talk about reapportionment a little
Molina
And what every ethnic group and segment was working on and what was going on. We were supposed to be the eyes and ears out here. So we were gathering a lot of that information so that the speaker would be able to, you know, enjoy the support of every ethnic group. I mean, his goal was very clear. He intended to be speaker for life. He wanted to make sure that his members that elected him were very happy. So we had to go out there and do anything we could to help in any way. From time to time, we took time off from the state office to go do straight political things. Straight political fund-raiser. Straight political, you know, walking and things.
Vasquez
Then you were off a salary at that time?
Molina
That's right.
Vasquez
How did you get compensated for that?
Molina
Well, we basically didn't. Sometimes. But we basically didn't.
Vasquez
So you would lose three months or a month's worth of salary.
Molina
No. It was a very short period of time. We'd do a week, you know, and that kind of thing.
Out of loyalty?
Molina
It was part of the job. I think we all recognized very clearly that we're all political. All of us who were in that office were very political. And believe me, I had the same goals as the speaker did. We wanted to keep . . .
Vasquez
Including him being speaker for life?
Molina
Well, at that time I didn't have a problem with that.
Vasquez
Why do you say that . . ? On what do you base the belief that he wanted to be speaker for life?
Molina
Because he said that.
Vasquez
Really?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
And you worked accordingly?
Molina
According to that.
Vasquez
Because even Jesse Unruh didn't . . .
Molina
I mean, I can be a very loyal person.
Vasquez
. . . expect that.
Molina
Huh?
Vasquez
Even Jesse Unruh did not want that.
Molina
He does.
Vasquez
Give me a thumbnail character sketch of Speaker
Molina
Okay. Well, certainly I knew him very differently then than when I was a state legislator. But he was, I guess, what is associated with Willie Brown all the time is "slick." And slick in a way that he's extremely powerful. He knows how to use his power. Extremely aggressive.
Vasquez
Give me an example of knowing how to use his power.
Molina
Well, for example. . . . There are so many incidents. In the kind of appointments that he makes. The kind of payback that he expects. You know, how he moves around in different groups. And then the demands that he makes and wants back. He buys everybody in. And that makes him powerful. Then he . . .
Vasquez
Is he simply a horse trader? Or does he have any statesmanship to him at all?
Molina
I think that Willie as an assemblyman was probably more of a statesman. Of course I didn't know him that well. As far as a government policy-making kind of person, he really believes
Vasquez
Is that the nature of the speakership in California?
Molina
I think so. I think that is the unfortunate nature of a lot of leadership positions. And you can't fault people. I don't particularly like it. I hate myself when I have to do it. But it is the nature of those leadership positions.
Vasquez
Well, it has been said that American politics is
Molina
Well, I know when it's too much for me. But I think that when you have to give in philosophically, that's too much of a compromise.
Vasquez
Even if you're buying political space for a future time?
Molina
Well, you can negotiate. But when you have to give in, I just think that that's terrible. Like, for example, right now. I'm a pro-choice [on the right to abortion] person. I've always supported and want to see laws maintained that we're always going to have that choice. What we're seeing now is a push-and-shove situation politically. I mean, if you're not pro-choice, you may not get elected. Even as a Republication. And what you're seeing is people switching their position. Now, I support pro-choice, and I'd love them to be pro-choice. But I cannot believe [that] philosophically one day you can be a pro-lifer, and then tomorrow—because you're running for office—switch. I think that's too much of a compromise. It doesn't make sense to me at all. Either you're there or you're not there.
Vasquez
Is that the kind of compromise that you saw Willie Brown was willing to make?
Molina
Well, I mean, he compromises on lots of things and plays different kinds of games. But he's a clever man. He's a smart man. And, again, he saves up his little chits—they're called—and uses them accordingly when he wants to maintain something that he needs to maintain. One of the things he's been able to do is to never allow the death penalty issue to come up in the state legislature, because of how he controls everything that's going on. That even the most conservative members owe Willie something. That they are willing to back off when it comes to that particular issue. And, consequently, he has saved it. Because that's one issue that, I guess, he's still passionately involved with.
Vasquez
It sounds like a philosophical issue to me that he's using power to come out on the winning end with.
Molina
Yes. As I'm saying, he is using that power to
Vasquez
Can he afford to be in a position where he's got to balance all these different forces?
Molina
Oh, sure. Oh, in any leadership role, you must. You must. Obviously, he does it well. He is still speaker. I guess he has now gone beyond any speaker in the state legislature. And that's, I guess, to his credit. It's a tough job.
Vasquez
You don't sound sure. You say, "I guess" and "I suppose."
Molina
Because again, it's up to him. I mean, is it worth it for him?
Vasquez
Is it worth it for the issues he represents? Or does he represent issues anymore?
Molina
Well, I think—because I've disagreed with him more recently—that he does not have issues anymore or have certain issues. Because he
Vasquez
For example?
Molina
Insurance. I was one of those that battled up there against the insurance industry on a regular basis. The insurance industry is one of the biggest contributors to the state legislative campaigns. You go against them and you lose your contributions. The redlining issue on insurance is against blacks and against Mexicans and against poor people, which is the same constituency that Willie has always represented and cared so much about. Yet when it came to really wrestling with the insurance industry, I felt that sometimes he compromised much too much. I know the other side of it was, well, you know, come election time, he needs the insurance industry to keep the money flowing to maintain that Democratic majority. To maintain him as speaker and other kinds of issues. And, of course, that's probably the appropriate way to play it, to do what he is doing. But it was not the appropriate way for me to play it, who has seen people hurt day after day by the insurance industry and this miserable policy. I wanted him
Vasquez
This was when you were in the assembly?
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative]
Vasquez
Let's hold that until we get to that stretch. We're going to get to that in a few minutes.
Molina
But those are the kinds of things that . . .
Vasquez
I want to get back to the period of 1981. And specifically, to one of the most articulate efforts in the history of the Mexican community here in California to involve itself in something as arcane as reapportionment. I'm speaking about Californios for Fair Representation. Tell me how that group emerged and your role in any of that.
Molina
[Laughter] You know, it's interesting. It was probably one of the hardest things that. . . . I find myself. . . . I'm known to be a very loyal person. And in this instance, I was in the same situation—I guess Willie was in many—in that I worked for the Speaker of the Assembly with the power to make the decisions about reapportionment. And the underrepresented is
I had to understand my role and my job with the speaker at the same time, and not to compromise that. Yet at the same time, carry out my responsibility, I felt, to my organization and to Californios. So I entered and participated within Californios to that extent. That I would probably not be able to participate in any
Vasquez
But the efforts of Californios were primarily at the state level—the assembly, senate, and congressional districts.
Molina
Yes. In the beginning, that's true. That was a lot of it. And all I could do was, hopefully, get the speaker to listen to this leadership group, which, very frankly, he did.
Vasquez
Some criticisms made of Californios: that they didn't spend enough energy on the county and the
Molina
No. I think Californios had such a huge job to do. Reapportionment is so tricky. They were watching the congressional lines. We were going to get two additional congressional seats, probably Latino congressional seats at that time. They were watching the state legislative lines. The county and the city of L.A. And then there were others that wanted to watch other cities and other kinds of things. And the resources were so limited. First of all, like any organization, everybody said, "Rah-rah-rah," you know. Then they came to the meetings, and they said, "You, Santillán, do it. You, John [E.] Huerta, do it. You, Miguel [F. García], do it." Everybody was, "We are going to be there to back you up." But they really weren't. So there was a small group of people doing all of that work.
Vasquez
Who were the people that you saw as being the
Molina
Santillán, Huerta, Miguel, Armando Navarro, Leticia Quezada and her husband—I can't remember his name—Marshall Díaz, Elena [Carrasco]—but I don't remember her last name either—was the attorney. They were the core group that were doing all of the work. They were going to the Rose [Institute of State and Local Government] in the middle of the night. They were drawing lines. They were negotiating with each other. They were doing all of those things. They were going in and trying to get meetings with Richard Alatorre. Trying to get Richard to tell them what was going on with the lines. Trying to present their plan. Trying to lobby. Here was a small core group of people doing lots and lots of work on a volunteer basis. Not a paid staff at all. And so it was a tough job to do. So I don't think it's fair to level any criticism at Californios, because Californios was barely making it. If there's any criticism that should be made, it should be at all the Chicano organizations that said, "Yes, we're going to be with you," and in the end didn't raise money, in
Vasquez
Now you were the liaison for the speaker and this group. How in the world did the speaker come out in the L.A. Times and the California press saying things like, "Mexicans are nice people, but they just don't vote"?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
That shouldn't have happened, should it, while you were there?
Molina
Well, it shouldn't have happened at all. I mean, why he said those kinds of things and. . . . It was upsetting to me personally. And, of course, he went through the whole thing about being misquoted and that that wasn't the case. But I knew that down deep inside, while Willie wouldn't say that to me, that's really what he felt.
Vasquez
So you really had very little impact on his thinking or his knowledge of the Mexican community?
Molina
Oh, very little. I mean, I wish I could say, "Hey," you know. I was almost like in the congressional office or in the intergovernmental
Did you get Richard and Art to help you?
Molina
Yes, and get them to see about getting on Willie for some of these remarks, and meeting with Californios.
Vasquez
What was the response when you tried to do that? Tried to get Art and Richard to react?
Molina
Oh, yes, they said they would. And I guess they talked to him. I don't know. I wasn't part of those conversations. But I set up the meeting with Californios and Willie for them to talk to him. And he was slick again.
Vasquez
What do you mean?
Molina
He told them everything they wanted to hear. And they went off. I don't know whether they trusted him or not. They probably didn't. But for the most part, they bought in. Because he's slick. He's smart. I watched Willie do it a hundred
Vasquez
Can you be more specific?
Molina
Well, for example, they were talking about. . . . I don't remember all their maps, because I wasn't involved in the maps as much. They were talking about creating certain districts. For example—I can't remember—in Ventura [County] somewhere, there was an assembly district, and so on. And he was saying, "Sure, let's do it that way." And, "Absolutely," and everything. But, very frankly, they weren't attaching themselves to anything. They weren't asking hard enough questions.
Vasquez
Which were?
Molina
I think what happens with many of us is that nobody really gets the commitment to the bottom line. And he's good at squirming away, never getting pinned down like that. So, consequently, they had a meeting. And they felt it was an okay meeting. And I guess it went well. But I don't feel that they pinned him down enough to real
Vasquez
In addition to having probably the most articulate—undoubtedly the most articulate effort on the part of the Mexican community—on the "outside" in Californios, at the same the Mexican community also had on the "inside" the most powerful single individual involved in that reapportionment, Richard Alatorre. An assessment would have to be that, "Yes, we might have gained some terrain." But not as much as that lineup of forces would indicate we might have. Why is that?
Molina
Well, I certainly don't know. I wish I did. I think that, you know, you might have to know to understand. You certainly get that from Richard Alatorre. I think we did fairly well.
Particularly in the congressional seats. Whether we did in the state legislative or the assembly
Vasquez
Could it be that, in this case at least, the Mexican-American community has not known how to deal with the dichotomy of being both an insider and an outsider? And making the most political gain out of those two positions?
Molina
Sure. Richard has done that very, very well.
Vasquez
But I'm saying in this case, between Californios and Richard Alatorre. I've interviewed every
Molina
One of the things that Richard does, and it's an ongoing problem, is that Richard is—and I know it's the problem I have with him every so often—he's going to tell me what's good for me. I'm supposed to sit in the wings and wait, and he's going to tell me what's good for me. Well, a lot of us don't like to operate that way and don't like it operated for us in that fashion. And I think that's what he did with Californios. That's what used to make them so angry. It's like, "Hey, I'm taking care of you." And you know, "You'll be fine. Don't worry about it." And he wouldn't give them any information. So, consequently, they were all, as I was, outside of the loop. And that made them angry and hostile. I don't blame them. So, you know, there's no doubt that for Richard it was good. It made him more effective and more powerful in the role that he played. And I guess that can be
Vasquez
So it wasn't just a question of political style. It was a question of substance. Different goals. Different motives.
Molina
Yes. Different motives. Different goals. In Californios, they were only doing one thing: trying to get those lines to get more seats for more Chicanos. It was a single issue. "This is what we want." Richard had to deal with everybody.
Vasquez
What was the biggest gain or the biggest contribution that Californios made in your mind?
Molina
I think that they put in place a mechanism of activism on the whole issue of reapportionment and its significance. I know that in the seventies there was some involvement. But I don't know much about it. But it wasn't like what they did in '81. Besides the fact that it
Vasquez
There's a conference taking place, I think, this weekend, isn't there? At the Rose Institute?
Molina
At the Rose Institute.
Vasquez
At Claremont McKenna College. Will you be a part of that?
Molina
No.
Vasquez
That's part of the outcome of that process.
Molina
Right. You know what's interesting for me about that process as well is that it taught me an awful lot. But I also felt that within the Rose. . . . I mean, they didn't lend us that for no reason whatsoever.
Vasquez
We're coming to that. [Laughter]
I mean, the Rose Institute is basically a Republican mechanism, as I see it. I think what they wanted to see was that kind of disruption to reapportionment that they hoped would evolve. And I think that, very frankly. . . . Again, it was more manipulated and staged than we would. . . . With that information and our capability of drawing those lines, we would instigate and create more confusion, and Republicans would have an opportunity to do something different, as they attempted to do. Because they knew they were going to get the short end. I mean, with Democrats in control of reapportionment, they were not going to get the full extent of what they wanted. And they're battling for it now. But I think . . .
Vasquez
Don't you think that Richard and Willie saw that?
Molina
Yes, absolutely.
Vasquez
And, perhaps, saw Californios as a manipulated group by the Republicans?
Molina
Absolutely.
Vasquez
Sort of a Trojan horse? Might that explain some of their resistance to . . ?
Molina
Well, there's no doubt that some of their
Vasquez
Were you ever able to break that down for Willie?
Molina
Well, I kept telling him that he should have confidence in this group. I told him, "There's no doubt what they want. They want to see more Mexicans elected. That's their single goal." But that's no different than blacks, women, or any other group. But, of course, he, you know. . . . He never did say, "Well, they're just Republican fronts." He never said that. And we weren't. I mean, I really felt we were very pure in what we were trying to do. But there's no doubt about it. . . . I don't think that the Rose was hoping that we would instigate. . . . Whatever that happened. Whether Richard trusted it or not, I don't know. I was never in those meetings or had those discussions with him. I don't think that he liked, that Richard liked the activism that was going on with Californios. I mean, they were militant about a lot of their positions and their issues. There was no room for compromise in many instances. And . . .
Vasquez
Might that had been one of the drawbacks of Californios? Which is our next question: what
Molina
One of the things they did wrong was they were just very hard line. They really didn't work at the idea—the negotiating aspect. They knew they didn't have the votes. Yet at the same time, they went in there and they were so adamant. There was just no room whatsoever to negotiate.
Also, they also weren't effective in communicating with everyone else as to what the concerns or the issues were. That small group stuck together. They went off, and they knew what they were doing. The rest of us who were outside of that working group knew very little of what was going on. So many times, we didn't understand the pleitos. So they kept a lot of information to themselves. But I think the biggest thing is they created this position of, "We're not going to back off unless we get this." And then there was nowhere else for them to go. I mean, there really wasn't. So they started losing their credibility as well toward the end, I felt.
Vasquez
What was the difference between that and the kind of tenacity that you're known for?
It's probably not all that different. [Laughter] But I feel that one of the things that. . . . I think they had to do what they had to do. And there's nothing wrong with it, because they were still achieving their goal. They could have negotiated maybe from time to time. But I also now think back and say, "It wasn't going to be. . . . They weren't going to get—and we're still not going to get—our fair share." So there has to be a group that has to be militant and radical in order to emphasize those kinds of issues. And I think that Californios did that well. Sometimes to the extent it was. . . . I even give them credit when they were arrested and when they sat in in the offices. Because that needed to be done in order to raise or focus the issues on what that was about and how significant it was.
Vasquez
What was your role in that?
Molina
I wasn't involved.
Vasquez
You weren't up there? You were not providing information to them at all? Or a conduit anymore?
Molina
No. I mean, all I could do was. . . . I told
Now, again, I was not involved in the inner workings of those lines. In fact, hardly anyone was, except for Richard [Alatorre], the speaker, and his folks. But I was not. I was a liaison person here, and that was the extent of it.
Vasquez
Now you decided to leave Willie Brown's office when?
Molina
It didn't really work that way.
Vasquez
Tell me how it did.
Molina
What happened during Californios is that one of the other. . . . My other personal goal was that hopefully we would get a congressional seat out of this. And within that congressional seat, we could get a Latina to run.
Vasquez
You?
Molina
No.
Vasquez
You weren't thinking of yourself?
No. Not at all.
Vasquez
What district are we talking about?
Molina
We didn't know.
Vasquez
Okay.
Molina
We knew that it was going to be somewhere in what was known as the greater Eastside. You know, the San Gabriel Valley . . .
Vasquez
The San Gabriel Valley?
Molina
Pico Rivera. Somewhere out there. And what we wanted was to be the mechanism to help that Latina get elected.
Vasquez
Who's "we"?
Molina
It was a group of us in Comisión—including myself, Leticia Quezada, Yolanda Nava, Sandy Serrano-Sewell. What we wanted to do was. . . . We started talking about how we would become that team that would support that Latina getting elected. It wasn't. . . . I mean, we didn't, like, meet every week. We talked about it. We would meet occasionally and talk about it. One of the things I felt I could contribute was I could be the campaign manager. Others talked about fund-raising. We just thought we would be that mechanism that would get somebody elected.
At that time, one of the people I was thinking of was Julia Silva. Julia was. . . . I don't know if you know her. But she was the councilperson and may have been mayor at that time of a little town called Hawaiian Gardens. She was a young Chicana whom I felt would be somebody perfect for this kind of a seat. I felt that we needed somebody who was already . . .
Vasquez
From a city council to Congress?
Molina
Right. Being elected would be a better opportunity.
Vasquez
Did you have the blessing of Ed Roybal on any of this?
Molina
No. No. This was all . . .
Vasquez
No discussions?
Molina
No. This was just us talking about it. We didn't even know it was going to happen. We just talked about it and all those kinds of things. It wasn't like, you know, we didn't define ourselves. This is exactly. . . . We talked
Vasquez
Where were they in? Who did it?
Molina
It was [Matthew G.] Marty Martínez and Estebán Torres.
Vasquez
Who anointed them? Where did they come from? Who supported them? Who backed them?
Molina
At that time, I guess, it was a Chicano political leadership all around Richard and Art.
Vasquez
Did you feel that you had no input into that?
Molina
Oh, I knew it. We had absolutely none.
Vasquez
Who did it? Somebody must have.
Molina
Oh, Richard and Art and all of his fund-raising people. TELACU [The East Los Angeles Community Union] was very involved with it. All of those folks. They. . . . It just. . . . And when you saw the lineup, you had an assemblyman, you had a labor leader, a former ambassador, former White House person. . . . Chances of a Latina were slim and none against those two folks, you know. So
Vasquez
What was your role in those elections? Any? Did you help?
Molina
No. Because what happened was. . . . In my own backyard, little did I know—and I didn't know—Art Torres decided to challenge Alex [P.] García. So lo and behold, all of a sudden there was going to be an assembly seat that was going to open up. So we quickly gathered when we found that out, the possibility of that. Art mentioned it to me. He said, "Are you going to run?" And I said, "No. Not me. By gosh, we're going to have to huddle and find us a candidate. And we'll be right back to you" kind of a thing.
Vasquez
But he came to you and asked you that? To your group?
Molina
Me.
Vasquez
Me?
Molina
He asked me.
Vasquez
Did he encourage you?
Molina
He, in a sense, did. Because we had talked. He had talked to me about it when I worked for
Vasquez
Well, it seems that you have to go to a press conference right now. Why don't we cut it off for the day?
[Session 4, July 12, 1990]
Councilwoman Molina, the last time we talked, we were just beginning to get into your decision to run for the assembly seat held by Art Torres when he challenged Alex Garcia. You've been quoted as saying that was probably one of the biggest heartbreaks that you had ever had. <
4. Mills, Kay. Gloria Molina. Ms. (January 1985): 80, 114 . Molina was featured on the cover of Ms. magazine's Woman of the Year issue.
Molina
[Laughter] And who I had loyally supported. It's interesting. My decision to run for that assembly seat was not done in a vacuum or by myself or something about, "It's time." It
Vasquez
This is the group that we were talking about?
Molina
Right, that we were talking about.
Vasquez
Electing someone to Congress.
Molina
That's right. That really was our focus. And we saw that kind of taken away from us. We were—as a group—disappointed, but said, "Hey, that's politics," kind of thing and continued to move on. I mean, we had always been respectful for the most part of the process that was laid out there in Chicano politics. We didn't say we liked it 100 percent for the most part. We knew that it was doing good things. The bigger good.
Vasquez
What process was this?
Molina
The process of the leadership that was there, the people who were there. We didn't always agree with Art Torres. We didn't always agree with Richard Alatorre. We didn't always agree with a lot of their decisions. But we also knew that they needed our support in order to keep going and doing the bigger good, as we said. So even in the congressional seats, you know, when they
Vasquez
[Despite the] organization that you had.
Molina
Right. Because all we were doing was basically saying, "If there's a shot, let's really go out there and look for someone and put her in the hopper." Little did we know that as quickly as they drew the lines and kind of let it be known, [there] also came the candidate. We felt a little shortchanged from that process.
Vasquez
Were you out of the loop?
Molina
Yes, we were out of the loop in that regard.
Vasquez
How did the loop work, then?
Molina
Well, the loop worked as they were elected officials; we were not. We were a support group and all of [that]. We were not elected officials. They had decided.
Vasquez
Without consulting supporters?
Molina
We were nobody to be consulted. In a sense, when we say, "We were nobody to be consulted. . . ."
Vasquez
What were the differences?
Molina
The differences between . . ?
Vasquez
In style or in content as you saw it.
Well, with other feminists or white feminists, we were not going to go in there and say to the old boys in our community, "Hey, that's it, you know. We're part of the environment or the picture here, and you need to consult us. And if you don't. . . ." We weren't as confrontational with them. We weren't as accusatory as. . . . "You guys are part of the problem." We were always willing to say, "The problem is racism. Sexism as well. But the problem is racism, and we've got to come out of all of those things." So we weren't willing to confront them and to blame them as quickly as most Anglo feminists were doing with men in general.
With the Chicano movement, we weren't as willing to dismiss our priorities as women. Which many times they [Chicano men] felt we needed to dismiss and say, "Wait a minute. The bigger issue is racism. You know, the sexism thing is not as important." We weren't willing to do that. So, like I said, we were between the two. And we were making our own way. I think we were very unique. We were [one of] the very first groups, and I think probably still one of
One of our big goals was learning to become leaders. Not to become followers to the white women's movement, and not to become followers to the Chicano movement. But to become leaders for ourselves, for other women. That was very important to us.
Vasquez
Summarize, if you will, what your feminist philosophy was at the time as a Chicana feminist.
Molina
As a Chicana feminist, we felt very, very firmly that women should have every single opportunity available to them—no different than the Chicano would say—and that it had been denied historically and traditionally. And that we as
Yet at the same time, our style was different. It wasn't coming in and making those demands. We had resolved to ourselves that we just had to work a heck of a lot harder to be equal. And somehow that was, I think, the Chicana part of us. We were willing to accept that yoke around us and to say, "We had to work a lot harder."
Vasquez
The burden of proof was on you. Was that it?
Molina
Yes.
And you were willing to carry that?
Molina
I would say that most of us as Chicanas did that.
Vasquez
Did that cause problems for you with the white feminist movement?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
How so?
Molina
Well, for example, we would go to a white feminist conference, and one of the very first things was they would use the "macho" term a lot. We said, "Hey, wait a minute. You know, we don't necessarily think that's a negative term." I mean, being macho in our community means being a man who lives up to his responsibility and his duty. I mean, you're not necessarily a pig. [Laughter] "We're not going to allow you to slander our men." And so we used to challenge them for saying things like "macho men."
Vasquez
Did you ever write anything on that score?
Molina
No.
Vasquez
As a group?
Molina
As a group?
Vasquez
Because that became a very important dichotomy, if you will, between Chicana and white
Molina
Yes. That was not us. I don't know if any of us did any writing on that or. . . . Francisca Flores may have. In her newsletters, she might have pointed those things out. But we were very proud of that difference. And we were very proud of saying so. I mean, we weren't shy at those meetings either. I know that even when someone would say something very boldly and very strongly about how we had to confront something. . . . We did not look at it necessarily that way, because again these were women who were operating under the impression that the only barrier out there was because of sexism. We had to tell them every so often, "That's crap if you're a Chicana or a black woman, you know."
At the beginning, that wasn't the case. They were very adamant. Just like the Chicano movement about, "We're feminists first, and that's it." In fact, there was always a
Vasquez
But did you continue to consider yourself a part of the feminist movement?
Molina
Yes, very much so. Even though we disagreed with them in certain things—we disagreed with styles and things of that sort, and we disagreed with them on some of the basics—we firmly agreed that there was sexism going on everywhere. And it needed to be challenged and confronted. We needed to develop strength and groups of people [with the] leadership to continue to battle that. Sexism was indeed a major problem, and it was a hindrance for us as Latinas. So we felt very strongly. . . . We still connected ourselves
Vasquez
What segments of the community did you find the most receptive and the least receptive to your coming into [community] issues as Chicana feminists and activists?
Molina
Well, the groups that were involved in social service programs welcomed us tremendously. They really did. And [it was] certainly a natural type of thing. Most of us were social workers, kind of.
Vasquez
Many of those social programs had women on their staffs, predominantly women.
Molina
That's right. So we were very welcome. We were
Then there were others that were threatened by it. I don't know exactly why. But I think they had this fear that. . . . Well, it manifested itself in different kinds of actions. Like some man said, "I don't want my wife to do that." Like something was going to be taken away from him if his wife was going to get educated or involved in this, and that she would be taken away from him. Again, I think there were those in the movement that probably felt—as has been said before—that we were dividing. We were dividing the movement. Consequently, it was going to curtail or somehow hold us back.
Vasquez
Were you made to feel guilty for your feminism by those folks?
No. I never . . .
Vasquez
Was there attempts to make you to feel guilty for your beliefs by those folks?
Molina
Oh, I think there were always those kinds of attempts. But, you know, they didn't land anywhere, at least for us who were very serious. I remember at one point in time something that made me so angry. And it hurt me a lot, because it was said so that I could hear it. I know it was said so I could hear it. The remarks by men about women anytime they establish any kind of leadership. Their feeling is always that, "These women don't have anything better to do." And I think when I heard this discussion between two Chicanos, it was this business, again, very sexual. I mean that, you know, we were just looking for men and looking for sexual opportunities with some so-called "great Chicano leaders" that we had at the time. That was a very, very painful experience for me. It hurt me because I didn't want people to perceive me as that. I was hurt by that. It was a very painful situation. I was single. I mean, we were young women who certainly were interested in men,
Vasquez
Or to minimize it to that?
Molina
Yes. I made it a point after that that I was just not going to have anything to do with any of these men ever on a social level. I was going to keep my distance from them, because this was so very important. But I remember being very hurt by that. At one point in time, I thought of stepping back, because I didn't want them to look at me that way. For my own personal dignity, I just couldn't. . . . The thought of continuing on and being looked upon that way was, again, something real personal for me that I couldn't handle. But then afterwards I thought about it. I said, "That's nonsense. That's part of what men do to intimidate you." And stepped right back into it. But I did resolve myself. . . . "These guys. [Laughter] They're so egocentric [to think] that all we are [doing] is chasing them around." Anyway, so there were those instances.
Vasquez
Now how did you move from that feminist effort into your decision to run for the assembly and
Molina
All right. Very frankly in mid-1981, I didn't work for Art Torres. I worked for Willie Brown. I had heard rumblings that Art was now considering running against Alex García. Of course, our little group got together and started discussing that. And right away, they said, "We've got to find somebody to run." I mean, here's a real opportunity and the whole thing. Of course, within my group everybody quickly pointed to me and said, "Gloria, it's like your backyard. You should run for the seat." I said, "No, no, no." I remember being very hesitant initially.
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
[Laughter] I don't know exactly why. Because I remember saying, "Wait a minute." I had seen myself in a different role. I had pictured myself as being a campaign manager.
Vasquez
The behind-the-scenes person.
Molina
Right.
Vasquez
What you had been doing already, right?
Molina
Right. That's where I had been most comfortable
Vasquez
Where do you think that comes from? I was rereading the first three sessions that we've done, and you mentioned that a number of times. Can you identify the source of that?
Molina
I don't know. But I sure did grow up with it. I mean, I'm not sure if I'm totally rid of it, right?
Vasquez
Uh-huh.
Molina
Then I would go into these things, and I would find, "Gee, I can do this. Gee, I can handle this." But why did I feel so inadequate and insecure? I don't know.
Vasquez
You felt the same way going into the White House?
Molina
Yes. That's right. Or getting involved in the Carter-Mondale campaign. "Oh, gee, I don't know if I can do that." The same kind of thing that I set up for myself every single time. That
Vasquez
It's a function of being a Chicana, do you think?
Molina
Well . . .
Vasquez
Is it cultural? Is it gender?
Molina
I think it's something that maybe is cultural and reflects what happened to us. And I think about it. I'm sure that my mom did not intentionally or anything like that, but probably it comes from that. I remember my mother reminding me at thirteen that I was going to get married and have kids, and I was going to be like her. I mean, "So don't get your hopes up," kind of a thing. It wasn't meant to be negative or anything, but I just remember those kinds of things.
Vasquez
Do you sense in generations subsequent to yours of young Chicanas that there's still that attitude?
Molina
Not necessarily. What I've seen in young Chicanas is very, very different. And it's great. Young Chicanas now who have no problem when they get accepted to Stanford
Vasquez
Have you thought about it enough to have an opinion of what changed? What happened in a very short period of time?
Molina
It's just like these gates just burst open—of opportunity. I mean, think about it. I mean, what motivates us? Or how do we see ourselves? If we don't see women in some of these roles, women in some of these situations, then how do we see ourselves there? We don't see Chicanas in those kinds of roles and the role modeling that we talked about in Comisión years and years ago. We used to say, "Well, is it important?" Heck, it is very, very important. If all of my role models—and certainly growing up all of my models, except for Anglos, were all of my mother's friends, all of my tías—all were wives.
Vasquez
Homemakers?
Molina
They stayed home and took care of their kids.
Vasquez
Is this why people like Francisca Flores had such an impact on you when you met her?
Molina
Oh, I think so. Oh, Francisca and people like her, they were just unbelievably amazing. Yes, they were very, very important people. They were brand new people. It was like a whole new world that I entered when I got to meet women like them.
Vasquez
All right. Now . . . [Interruption]
Molina
Now back to this. [Laughter]
Vasquez
You were being talked into being the candidate. Tell me more about that.
Molina
Well, again, the self-doubt. Then, of course, "Well, wait a minute. Can we do it?" and dah-dah-dah. And we finally decided, "Well, let's go and check it out." I guess we decided not to go and meet with Art. Or at least I didn't meet with Art right away, because he had his own thing to do. I mean, he was going to challenge Alex García and everything else.
I met with a very good friend of mine at the time, Lou Moret. He was Richard Alatorre's administrative assistant. Lou had been very, very helpful to me and had taught me a lot of the ins and outs of being a. . . . He assisted me in becoming Art Torres's AA and had been really been very helpful. I had worked with him for years. So I trusted him. I had an awful lot of confidence in him and felt that he was somebody I could talk to.
So I went ahead and had a meeting with him. It started out that, "I'm thinking of running for the seat. What do you think?" And it was the way he responded that was the most disappointing, and I'll never forget that. All that self-doubt? He threw it all back at me. "You can't run. You can't win. What are you talking about? You can't raise money. You can't get endorsements." I mean, all the "You can'ts" that I said to myself, he just laid it all out there for me. And I said, "But, of course, I could try. I think I can raise. . . . I think I can do it." All this doubt. It was a very, very hard meeting, but I had already settled these
So, you know, I was sort of discouraged by the meeting and walked away from the meeting confused about it. So I went back to my little group and told them that he really felt I couldn't do this, couldn't do that. And we started thinking about it to ourselves. But within hours or within days of that conversation, I had heard who they were thinking of as a candidate and . . .
Vasquez
Which was?
Molina
Which was Richard Polanco.
Vasquez
Did you know Richard Polanco?
Molina
Oh, very well. [Laughter]
Vasquez
From?
Molina
From when I used to work in Casa Maravilla as a volunteer. When I was a secretary, I used to work in the evening. In fact, he was originally one of the gang guys that used to hang around.
Then I called up Lou Moret, and I said, "I just heard that Richard Polanco's going to run for this seat." So he said, "Yeah, yeah." I said, "Well, you can't support somebody like that." And, basically, he was telling me that he was. I think that was the biggest blow that I had. Because what I had seen as a good friend, whom I thought I could go to in confidence and talk to about these things, all of a sudden was telling me that, "Hey, it's already been decided, and you're not it." He was just feeding into exactly what was going on. That's when I started finding out that they had already decided who was going to run for this seat. Richard Alatorre, everybody around that group started being very noncommital. "Oh, yeah. Give me a call. I'll
Vasquez
What were the problems you had with Polanco's candidacy?
Molina
I had worked with Polanco. First of all, he's not a very hard worker. I had always found that Richard Polanco was. . . . He's always been promoted by others and has had great granddaddies or grandfathers in the process. There are a lot of people who are very lucky in that regard. He's one of those people that's very lucky. But he personally is not a hard worker on issues or anything. He has never done anything on his own. He's always attached himself—in a leadership role—to other things that are going on. And I knew that about him all the time. I mean, that's just his style. I also used to find him. . . . Of course, I didn't know him as a
Here I was, and here was Richard Polanco. So Lou Moret had shot me down, because all of these things I couldn't do. Then they put me up and said, "Polanco was it. . . ." I looked at that and said, "Hey, wait a minute. I mean, with all due respect, we might be equal in footing, but I'm not less qualified than this individual to be a candidate." And that's what I couldn't handle.
Vasquez
The only difference being that you were a woman?
Molina
Well, that's what I wanted to find out. What is this? And that's when we got the runaround and everything else. I could only conclude that. I had to conclude that. It was the men deciding, and only men in that group, who made that decision and who wouldn't tell you why. Anyway, we went back and forth.
Finally, the more they said they were going
Vasquez
Who were the Golden Palominos?
Let's see. The Golden Palominos included, of course, Richard Alatorre, Lou Moret, at that time David Lizarraga. I think George Pla was involved. Congressman Roybal was at that meeting. Estebán Torres was at that meeting. Marty Martínez supposedly was at that meeting. I don't know if Polanco was there or not. I don't know. But there were a lot of the elected leadership of that time and kind of the fund-raising base of most of those guys.
Vasquez
What did Golden Palomino refer to?
Molina
Well, at that time, there was a reporter with the [Los Angeles] Herald [Examiner] by the name of Tony . . .
Vasquez
Castro.
Molina
Castro. And Tony had his own column. So he had his own opinions, as he wrote about them an awful lot. At that time, he wrote about that. He wrote about that meeting, and he wrote about it being the Golden Palominos. You know, the men getting together and doing their things. Gosh, I don't even remember the columns anymore, but that's how that phrase came about. They met, and they did that. I mean, we said that it was
Vasquez
They were all elected officials and you weren't.
Molina
That's right.
Vasquez
What was the basis for you being included? What was the argument that you would use?
Molina
Well, that's just it. I wasn't saying, "I need to be part of the decision-makers," but just, "I've decided to run. I've decided to be a candidate, and I deserve to be considered."
Vasquez
All right.
Molina
That's all I was asking for. If I was going to be dismissed as a candidate, I needed them to tell me that. That's when they started fudging an awful lot. But it got very heavy duty. I think a lot of it was that they looked at me and said. . . . Again, like they did in 1974: "Just a whim. She'll get over it" kind of thing, right? That's exactly what I think they thought. So when I talk about that period—six months of the silent pleito—it was like on their
But we became very, very persistent. We did everything. We kept meeting and we kept trying to figure it out. We sat down and we took everything they said about me negatively. We wrote it down. "Can I get endorsements?" I took out my list. "This is why not." Tum-tum-tum-tum. "This is why I think I can get these endorsements." We laid it all out. And they were pretty good endorsements. Because I had worked that district. I knew those people. I knew a lot of the other people that I helped. Good endorsements. We laid it out, "Can I raise money?" And we laid out a plan where I thought I could get money. It wasn't a whole lot, but it was pretty good.
Vasquez
What kind of endorsements are you talking about?
Molina
The other local elected officials: the local mayors, local city council members, other people I had worked with who were heads of groups and organizations, again that social service group—leadership—that I felt I could get. So they
Vasquez
And in fund-raising?
Molina
In fund-raising, not only did we look at a lot of people that I had been working with that I knew or I thought would commit to me for money, but I had a whole cadre of feminist women and leaders that I had been involved with. People that I had been involved in their campaigns and helped them get elected. I thought I might be able to turn around and get money from them. So it wasn't anything to sneeze at. I mean, we were doing that.
Now, we said to ourselves, one of the things was, "Chicanas never run. Men are not going to . . . . I mean, they're not going to elect a Chicana." And this is a very Latino district. Very Chicano. Very macho, as they say. So we did an analysis of the district, and we put together $5,000. All of us kicked in some money, and we went and talked to a political consultant. We said, "We want to know. Can a woman win in this district? What kind of problems would she have?" There wasn't much you could do other than analyze a couple of seats.
Vasquez
To be a woman?
Molina
Yes. We wanted to destroy everything that they had said I could not do. Like I said, we always accepted the fact that we needed to work twice as hard; we really physically went out and did that. I mean, I didn't dismiss it and say, "Oh, yeah. I'm better than you, because I say I am." We were sitting there figuring it out. "Am I better? Can I do it?" And we had all of this in place. We spent a lot of time putting that together. We didn't just go back to the men and say, "I should be considered just because I'm a woman and because I decided to run." We wanted to go back and say, "I should be considered, because I can raise money. I can get the endorsements. I can go out there and campaign.
Vasquez
Did you ever get a hearing from them?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
Tell me about that.
Molina
All right. What happened was we were very persistent, as I said, and we demanded. We demanded that opportunity to be considered. Basically, they figured they would wear us out. But eventually it got to a point where they had to grant us that opportunity. To make that presentation, it was all a hush-hush kind of a meeting. Very few people knew about it—that I was supposed to go. I would go and make my case. Polanco would make his case. And they would make a decision. If I was willing to abide by the decision.
Vasquez
Who gave that caveat?
Molina
Richard Alatorre had set up that situation. And
Vasquez
Who did you take?
Molina
I took Sandy Sewell. Sandy Serrano-Sewell.
Vasquez
Who was in that meeting?
Molina
In that meeting were Richard Alatorre; Lou Moret; [Daniel] Dan Arguello, who was AA to Richard Alatorre; George Pla; David Lizzaraga; Art Torres; Richard Polanco; and myself. The others, for the most part, had fallen off. In other words, Congressman Roybal was not that opposed to my candidacy.
Vasquez
So he wasn't there.
Molina
He wasn't there saying, "No, no, no." And Marty Martínez didn't seem to care. He was busy running for Congress. Estebán didn't seem to participate, although I think he had a proxy from David Lizarraga.
So I got invited. Basically the rules were made by Richard. And I sat there and basically
Vasquez
Like what?
Molina
Well, for example, when we got in there, it was an early morning meeting. Everybody's reading the paper, writing, starting to have a discussion about the stock market and about how the stocks were doing and, "How's your stock doing?" and "How's this thing?" And I mean, here we were, a bunch of poor Chicanas, right? [Laughter] Even if we knew about stock, we wouldn't have the money to invest in it. And here was this discussion going on, you know, as they were having their coffee and their rolls. A lot of it was to, I think, intimidate us. Of course, the question was something about stocks or investing in something. And Sandy was very good. She didn't let them intimidate her. She threw it right back at them. She goes, "No, I'm doing this with my money and this and that." She
But it was, by design, intended to create that kind of intimidation. The setup of where they sat and how they sat. It was Richard's office, so he was going to sit at his chair. And then there were three chairs like this. They had taken them, and then there was a couch in the back. [Laughter] So that was the only space left for us. And you could tell. But there was a little conference table next to the chairs. So Sandy and I went and grabbed one of those chairs and pulled it up right next to the table. It's all part of a game. It's all part of the thing. We had learned about it [Laughter] as feminists, to know that's part of what goes on, this whole power-playing that goes on. And we didn't allow them to do it to us. It's interesting. Those were the silent dynamics. Nothing had even been said about it. I mean, there was no meeting yet. Richard hadn't arrived or anything. We were all kind of getting ready for it.
So then the meeting proceeded. Richard
Vasquez
Why was he running the meeting? As the chairman of the Chicano Caucus, or what?
Molina
No. He was just kind of the head.
Vasquez
Recognized?
Molina
Not appointed by anybody or elected.
Vasquez
But recognized by the rest?
Molina
Yes. Everybody else recognized him, and we had to recognize him. He was the one who held all the resources for that particular seat. Normally it would have probably been Art Torres, but Art was busy trying to run for a senate seat. So it was pretty much Richard who was calling all of these shots, who took the leadership role right up front.
So like I said, Richard was outlining the rules. So right away I had to challenge the rules because I didn't think the rules were fair. Basically, the rules said that they would listen to both of us as candidates. Then they would make a decision and they would let us know. One of the rules was that both of us would adhere to their decision. In other words, if
So they asked Polanco, first of all. They didn't ask me first. They asked him if he agreed, and he said no. I felt like one of the guys was going to go up and say, "Pendejo" [fool]. He didn't. He said no. He said, "I think I should run." One of the guys said, "This is just the rule part. We are just trying to get this down. All we want to do is. . . . Will you submit to it?" So he finally said yes. Kind of a conditional yes.
Then they asked me, and I said, "Yes, I will agree that if you decide to run that I should not be the candidate. I will adhere to it, and I will not run for that seat. I just want to know the reason why."
Richard said, "No, no, no. There's no reason. No reason."
I said, "No, no. I have to know the reason why. I have to know why I would not be selected by this group to be the candidate. So I'm willing to adhere to it. I just want to know the
"We don't have to tell you."
I said, "But, oh, you do have to tell me. Because I think the reason why is because I am a woman. And if that's the reason why, I want you to tell me that."
"It's not the reason."
"Then I'm just asking you. If you decide against me, I just want to know why. Can I not raise the money? Can I not get the endorsements? Why won't you select me as a candidate? I need to know." So that's all I asked for.
The entire meeting, which lasted about an hour, was over the discussion of that. We tried to get off of that and go back into like a meeting: "Okay, make your presentation" type of thing. Very frankly, Polanco didn't do very well. I think it was, again, one of those situations where he felt like, "I have to prove nothing to nobody. These are my friends. They're going to vote for me, right?" And I came in loaded for bear. "What do you want to know? Money?" [Laughter] "Votes? What do you want to
Vasquez
Why do you say that?
Molina
I don't know. It was like we had it, but he didn't have it. The design was to select Polanco. I mean, we knew that going in, but we weren't going to give them any room. So we said, "Do you want me to start with endorsements? Do you want me to start about the demographics of the district? Do you want me to start with money? What do you want me to do?" They really didn't like that at all, because they were hoping that I was going to sit there and say, "Oh, gee, you should select me, because I, gee, helped you, Richard. Gee, I helped you." That kind of thing. And we didn't. We were very prepared to make a very solid case as to why I should run. We weren't sure that we had all that, but we believed ourselves that we were going to make our case.
One of the things that was funny about it is. . . . Because one of the things Richard said is money. "So how much money can you raise?"
We put a figure out. I can't remember. Fifty thousand?
"You need more than that."
I said, "Well, if we need more than that, we'll raise more than that."
One of the others—I can't remember who it was—Lou Moret or one of them said, "How much money do you have?"
And I said, "How much money do you guys have?"
And so Sandy said, "We've got $22,000."
And he said, "You don't have $22,000."
"Sure we've got $22,000. How much do you guys have?" And she said, "I'll bring my checkbook if you bring yours." It was that whole pleito over nothing. And it was just a matter of understanding what we were in there for.
Very clearly, I think after, what, forty-five minutes, they decided they weren't getting anywhere with us. I mean, they didn't intimidate us initially. They had not gotten us to submit to their rules 100 percent. Everything that they thought they were going to do in that room didn't occur. So then I stepped out of the meeting. We
Vasquez
The meeting was up in Sacramento?
Molina
It was up in Sacramento. It was extremely intimidating. I mean, the whole thing. I mean, here you are, this candidate, and you're going in there sort of begging in a sense.
So it was a very, very intimidating kind of a situation. At one point in time I said to myself, "I'm glad I didn't cry." I mean, that's how I felt. That at least I was able to get through that meeting.
Vasquez
Cry from anger?
Molina
From anger and from frustration and from being painfully hurt by these guys. And I would say as a woman. I didn't. All we did was we kept up with them. No matter how fast they ran, we were right there with them, neck-and-neck. No matter what they said, we were prepared. No matter how and whatever direction they tried to trick us, we were ready. And it was because we had prepared
Vasquez
At least without an endorsement?
Molina
Yes. I mean, if I would have gone in there very naively and thought, "Gee, let me make my case, then make this presentation. . . ." They were going to say, "Let's make this. . . ." We knew that going in, the intent of that meeting was to get me out of the race. That was the intention. And they weren't successful in that regard. I had basically counted on the fact that they would not be willing to make a decision. They would make the decision, but the fact that they wouldn't tell me the reason, I was not going to abide by it. And I challenged them. I said, "I think you're going to tell me it's because I'm a woman. And I want you guys to say that."
Vasquez
This was already 1982. Why would being a woman be seen as a drawback by them?
Molina
Oh, for a Chicana, it was still. . . . We were
Vasquez
Do you think it was a pragmatic concern by these fellows that they would not be successful in running you? Or that there was something inherently weak, wrong, or unacceptable about a woman in politics?
Molina
Well, I think what it really comes down to. . . . And there are differences between men and women in office that have been proven time and time again. First of all, the so-called old boys network. It really is a very, very functional part of politics.
Vasquez
What is it based on?
Molina
It's based on how they get along and what they do for each other.
Vasquez
On trust?
Molina
I don't know if it's similar values. I don't
Vasquez
By virtue of being a man?
Molina
Yeah.
Vasquez
Any man?
Molina
Almost.
Vasquez
Any man can become part of the old boy network?
Molina
Almost. What they want is someone who is going to be. . . . That they're going to be comfortable with. To invite in. To be part of that process. I mean, a woman's different.
Vasquez
I'm trying to get at what it is that's different. Early in the history of the California legislature, there were some theories. They made the argument: there were no bathrooms for women if they came up there. That was an argument. Where were they going to go to the bathroom if they are elected?
Molina
I mean, let's face it. Sexism was going on. It was fully operational amongst these guys for all different kinds of reasons. Some of them were worried their wives were going to get taken away from them. Here was this woman all of a sudden. "What are we going to do when we get
Vasquez
Right. Exactly.
Molina
That they supported Comisión Femenil and all of that.
Vasquez
And welfare mothers.
Molina
Yes, the whole thing. But I think down deep inside, when it came to the issue of the relationship with one another, one, and the power. . . . I mean, "A woman? We're going to give her power?" I mean, there were very few of these seats available. Very few of them. So to be sharing them with women was. . . . You know,
Vasquez
Wait. You're getting ahead a little bit.
Molina
Am I?
Vasquez
Yes.
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
You got back from the meeting, what was the discussion?
Molina
What do you mean what was the discussion?
Vasquez
What was the discussion? Were you going to run anyway? Had you already decided you were going to run anyway no matter what happened in that meeting?
Molina
No. No.
Vasquez
All right.
Molina
No, no. We went into that meeting. We knew that they were not going to endorse us, okay?
Vasquez
But there was a hope they might?
Molina
There was a hope that there would be something there that they would listen to. In here we had
Vasquez
So how, when, and with whom did you decide that you should run anyway?
Molina
Well, the thing is . . .
Vasquez
It couldn't have been an easy decision.
Molina
No. It was a very tough decision. We still weren't sure after that meeting. Richard said he'd get back to us. That we were supposed to not say anything about that meeting. It was supposed to be kept secret.
Vasquez
Did you abide by that?
Molina
Yes, at the time. Absolutely.
Vasquez
Did you get back to him?
Molina
Well, the thing is, he didn't get back to us right away. So we had to call him. And there was no decision that was made at the meeting. And I said, "What do you mean there was no decision that was made?"
"No, we didn't make any decision."
And I said, "What does that mean?"
"Well, what can I tell you? We didn't make a decision." It was another part of their game. You know, what should I do? Sit around and wait till they made a decision. Come on. So that's when we felt there were a lot of games going on. That's when we decided, "Let's go. Let's go for it. Let's try to put it all together. Let's go for the endorsements. Let's try it all." And that's when we went. We started putting it all together.
Vasquez
What was the immediate reaction from this group of men when you did announce that you were running anyway?
Molina
That I was disrespectful.
Vasquez
Explain that.
Molina
Well, you know, they said that they were going to make a decision, and I wasn't sitting around waiting for their decision.
Vasquez
So it was nondeferential?
Molina
Yes. Exactly. So they were really resentful of that. I felt, "I've got to move on. I've got to do these things." Then it continued with the
"Yeah, yeah, yeah. Call my secretary, and get a meeting." And even with Art Torres, it was hard. It was real hard.
Vasquez
Art Torres wasn't in that initial meeting?
Molina
He was in the initial meeting, but he wasn't in the . . .
Vasquez
The showdown meeting. We'll call it the showdown meeting.
Molina
Actually, he was. He walked in at the end.
Vasquez
All right.
Molina
He walked in at the end. And it was interesting, because he didn't like the dynamics either.
Vasquez
How do you know?
Molina
Because he said something about it in one part of the meeting; when we talked about, "I need to know why," he reinforced it. He said, "She's right. You've got to tell her. You've got to tell her." That kind of thing. So he was more supportive in that meeting. I mean, he didn't sit there and make a case for me. But then again, I didn't expect him to. He needed these folks to help him run against Alex García.
Right.
Molina
So he wasn't going to . . .
Vasquez
Which was not an easy race.
Molina
So he wasn't willing to go in and say, "Hey, come on, Richard" and all the others. He didn't do that. But at least he was creating a much fairer kind of situation by interjecting every so often.
Vasquez
Now he ultimately did come around to your side. How did that happen? And why did he?
Molina
We worked him hard. [Laughter] We lobbied him. We did the whole thing. We had to make a presentation. "I really need your endorsement. It will be very important to me." We told him how I had a chance of winning and about all the people that were going to endorse me and support me. We had to make a real case for Art.
Vasquez
Was this before or after the group had said, "You are not [it] . . ."
Molina
Oh, after.
Vasquez
Okay.
Molina
This is after. Because Art didn't give me his endorsement right away. We worked it. The other thing is I had to make a commitment that, "I don't plan on taking anything away from you." In
Vasquez
Was it a quid pro quo? What did you give him?
Molina
Well . . .
Vasquez
What were you going to give him in return for his endorsement?
Molina
You know, I'm trying to think of when I sat there and we negotiated. . . . No, I was automatically endorsing him whether he was going to endorse me or not. And our group of women were automatically supporting him.
Vasquez
Why was he different than the others?
Molina
What others?
Vasquez
Why was he perceived as different from the others in that meeting by the feminists and the group around you?
Molina
Not only because he had hired me and I worked for him and I had brought him closer to a lot of those feminists, but he was married to Yolanda Nava, who was also part of Comisión Femenil and also a very active feminist in her own right. So
Vasquez
But Richard had also opened some doors for you?
Molina
Yes, initially. Richard was the one who, first of all, got us up in Sacramento the first time. And he, you know, was very helpful. Absolutely. But we had worked with both of them very much.
Vasquez
I'm trying to get at what the difference had become by then between the two. Was it that Art seemed more supportive or more open to things?
Molina
Art was more supportive.
Vasquez
And more open to women in politics?
Molina
Art was not necessarily as caught up in the intimidation of having a woman around.
Vasquez
Was he less of a member of this "in" group?
Molina
He was less of a member. I mean, you know, he wasn't. . . . I mean, he didn't do the "drinking buddies" kind of routine that they all used to do.
Vasquez
Do you feel that endorsing you cost him anything?
Molina
I think, yes, it did. He got criticized from that group again and probably threatened. I don't know what they did. Somebody probably said, "Hey, I'm not going to give you money," or
Vasquez
Was this the beginning of a political alliance?
Molina
Oh, we had a political alliance.
Vasquez
Already?
Molina
Yes. We had worked together. So we did have a political alliance, and I was very grateful. And Art, believe me, didn't help me at all.
Vasquez
In the endorsement?
Molina
Right. He couldn't. I mean, he had a big job to do, and it was really, really rough. Sometimes we got into little battles about style and things of that sort, because I think he was taking a beating from those guys. Every so often, Art was hard on me.
Vasquez
How so?
Molina
Oh, critical of what I said. How I moved around. Things like that. I think a lot of it was because those guys were probably constantly
Vasquez
Okay. Tell me about the race against Polanco. The results were pretty close.
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
Tell me about that.
Molina
Well, I'll tell you. It's interesting. Once you got into a campaign. . . . And I had great people around me in this campaign, really great people. I must tell you that I can't remember as much about Polanco as a candidate as I remember about everything that I did. Because I don't know exactly what they were doing. But we were working our fannies off.
Vasquez
So it was a pro-Gloria rather than an anti-Polanco campaign, is that it?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
Tell me about the Fifty-sixth Assembly District as you remember it.
Molina
Well, it's the most Latino district in this state
Vasquez
Mostly Mexican?
Molina
Mostly Mexicanos.
Vasquez
It was also one of the poorest, wasn't it?
Molina
Yes, very poor neighborhoods. It's the Eastside and the Southeast portion of L.A. It included all of unincorporated East L.A. and Boyle Heights and the downtown portion. The inner city portion of Los Angeles. Then it had communities like Maywood, Bell Gardens, city of Commerce, Vernon. They were all kind of poor. A lot of their voters are white, but they're poor communities in L.A. But, again, it was mostly a Chicano district. And it's all compact. It's very compact. A lot of the assembly districts are scattered. Again, we had learned to become good planners and very effective at developing a plan and implementing strategy. I hired people to help me with all of it.
Vasquez
Who were some of the people that worked for you in the campaign?
Well, I hired a political consultant by the name of [Patricia] Pat Bond, who is my consultant now. And Fred Register. Those were the two consultants, political consultants, that we hired. Sandy Sewell was the key fund-raiser. She was doing a lot of the activities around of the fund-raising. Pat and Fred were wonderful in devising a plan that was going to work: what I needed to do and how I needed to do it. I was sure that I wanted to walk the whole district. Which we did. I was a good walker. I had been doing that in other campaigns, knocking on doors and talking to voters. That was the best thing in the world. Some of them disagreed with me; some slammed their doors on me. But for the most part, it was just a wonderful, very embracing kind of situation where people were glad that I came to their door: glad to see a woman making a decision to run, who wanted to talk about issues. They were impressed that I could articulate them, and all of those kinds of things. It made you feel really good to go out there. Even though every so often, one would slam their door, and that would make you angry,
Vasquez
Element?
Molina
Uh-huh. And they were . . .
Vasquez
But it was different?
Molina
Huh?
Vasquez
It was different?
Molina
It was different. That was one of the best parts about that campaign that I remember: going and knocking on doors. A lot of senior citizens, for example, in Boyle Heights and unincorporated East L.A. Older women who said, "God, that's. . . . Qué bueno que estás corriendo por esto puesto." [It's good you're running for this post]. I mean, just really were wonderful about it.
Vasquez
I think they're going to pull you out in a couple of minutes. Why don't we stop here?
But I think that was important. To me that was the part I remember a lot.
[Session 5, July 19, 1990]
We were having a fascinating discussion on some of the things that you learned in your first campaign for the assembly. One of the things you were elaborating on was the issues that you expected middle-aged or older Latinas to be conservative on, but they were not.
Molina
That's right. They were not.
Vasquez
And they were sometimes more enlightened than any of your advisers indicated. Do you want to tell me more about that?
Molina
Well, what was interesting was that the profile that I had gotten about the older Mexicana, the older Latina voter, was that she was going to be too conservative. That more than likely, she was not going to support someone like me, a woman running [for office]. That I was going to be too progressive on a lot of issues. My position on [reproductive] choice and so on. But, instead,
Vasquez
What was?
Molina
Their big concerns were just keeping the neighborhood together. You know, a good, clean neighborhood. "That I want my little house. . . . I hate the graffiti. I hate the gangs. I hate the crime." All the regular issues that people really care about. "I hope you'll do something about it." They had a tremendous—as a group—sort of distrust of some politicians and yet an unbelievable admiration. . . . They talked about how they admired the Roybals and the
Vasquez
How did they feel about the new generation of politician: Art Torres, Alatorre, and [Assemblyman Peter R.] Chacón?
Molina
Well, most of the people that I was working with knew I was running for Art's seat, and they liked Art. So they would ask if I had his support. Which I did. And the congressman's support. That was really helpful. They really admired them, but they sort of had a distrust for politics or politicians. But they were very loyal to voting. Which is something we knew about.
Vasquez
Did they see a new generation of politicians coming up?
Molina
I don't know. I didn't spend a whole lot of time in talking about it. But I'll tell you this: I remember one incident where an older woman. . . . When I started talking, she said, "I want you to
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
And she talked about how her niece—or her goddaughter, granddaughter, I don't know what she was—was going to have a chance to be like me. That made it exciting for her. And she talked about how, "When I was a young woman, we didn't have these opportunities. My daughter graduated from college, and now her daughter"—I guess, it must have been her grandchild—"is going to have a chance. And I want her to be like you." That kind of thing. So there seemed to be an excitement about those potential opportunities. Certainly, through these discussions they talked about the things that they didn't get a chance to do themselves. One said, "We never had a chance to run for office." But the other [interesting] thing about [this was their] even having an opinion. I don't know. Maybe I solicited their
Vasquez
Where did you get resistance?
Molina
I got resistance from younger men. The twenty-five to thirty-five-year-old. Not the very young men, but the twenty-five to thirty-five-year-old who wouldn't give me the time to talk to them.
Vasquez
That's interesting. You would expect that generation would be the most attuned to rising female participation in politics as well as in everything else.
Molina
Now the Latina, I think if there's any apathy, the apathy is strongest [regarding] politics. At least in the Eastside. I don't know if it was just the woman but they didn't want anything to do with politicians. "I'm not interested. . . ." It was just like there was no room to discuss anything.
Vasquez
Was there a difference between the native-born
Molina
Well, you know, very frankly I don't know which one was the immigrant born. Some of them you could sort of tell. But I don't remember that. I just remember that group seemed to be uninterested. And it used to make me angry. I remember sometimes I'd go out like on a Saturday, and they'd be washing their car. Or they'd be out in the front cleaning up. These were the people I saw. I would go to one, two, three, four. And all of them didn't want to talk to me. That would make me angry, [so] that number five got zapped by me. [Laughter] "This is important, and you should pay attention. And that's why we don't have what [we need]. . . ." I'd start to lecture the poor guy washing his car, right?
But it seemed like those were the ones who were sort of uninterested. Some of them might have been uninterested because [it] was a woman that was campaigning. But they just seemed to be uninterested and didn't find any real connection with politicians, or politics, or government. And they weren't the sure voter. They weren't
I did [get] resistance from men who were interested and who were good voters. I wouldn't say [any particular] age groups, but those who were interested. And I was challenged fairly directly by some of them.
Vasquez
In what way?
Molina
Well, first of all, by the fact that I was running. One guy that I talked to was really good. He doesn't realize how good he was, because he was very blunt and very candid: "Why should I vote for you? You'll go up there. And, yes, you might be a good representative, but nobody's going to pay attention to you. I mean, everybody's going to ignore you. You know, women in politics? They don't pay attention to women in politics. So why should I select you . . ?"
Vasquez
And waste his vote?
Molina
Right. "To go and represent me, just to be
Many times, people who would get into dialogue with me gave me an idea of how a whole segment of people felt. One other man who basically was very, very sexist. . . . His thing was that, "I want to vote for the right person. No, it doesn't matter whether you're a male or a female. But the other candidate supports this-this-this-and-this." He obviously knew the other candidate. I said, "But I support all of those issues. I mean, I don't understand. If that's what is important to you." So then he tried to find a reason that he could get to not support me. He worked really hard at trying to figure out what that was. It finally came down to, "Well, do you support homosexuals teaching in schools?" And I think there had been like a bond measure, an initiative that had gone through somewhere a couple of years before that. So I talked about that. I said, "I really feel that
Vasquez
By process of elimination?
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative] It was just like an inbred sexism. He couldn't possibly support a woman, and he had to find a reason why. I know that my opposition was supporting the same position that I had, as far as homosexuals teaching. But he needed to have something. And he didn't feel good about himself until he had an issue that he could pin to it. And it's interesting, because I see him around a lot. Now, he's a great supporter of mine.
Vasquez
Tell me, did this notion—or this challenge to you—that you would be ignored have anything to do with the subsequent style you adopted?
Molina
Well, the thing is that when he said that to me, I mean, it rang a bell. Because it was true. I knew it was true. I mean, it wasn't anything that was so foreign to me. Hey, that was going
Vasquez
What else did you learn about the electorate in that first campaign?
Molina
Well, the other thing, and the disappointing thing about it, was that there are very few people that do want to get into that dialogue. I mean, the people that I talked about—this small group of people. Most people are not that interested in really wanting to know the difference between candidates and sometimes will just wait around for the slick mail and all of that kind of stuff. Which taught me a lot about campaigning. There's a technical aspect of all this, but it's what the voters want to see.
I was one of those that [said], "Well, I stand firmly on these issues." If I tell them, "These are the issues that I represent," these should be good enough. But if you would take a picture with a policeman, that's important. My campaign consultant had a heck of a time. I mean, how does someone who is four foot eleven, a woman, how does she look tough on crime? [Laughter] How do you relate that to the voters, you know?
Vasquez
How did you do that? [Laughter] How did you look tough?
Molina
Well, that's just it. It's, "How did she do it"? And she had to find those pictures where I was next to policemen and those kinds of things, and getting those kinds of endorsements and that kind of support. But it was a tough one for her to do. But a lot of it, the pictures was the staging, [that's] how she did it. What I used to say was, "I can't believe that this is really what [works]." But it is. It is what works. It's those kinds of things.
Vasquez
Image over substance?
Molina
Image over substance, yes. And that is
I hated doing those kinds of things, but it is what makes these campaigns function and work. I wish it was those open debates that we could go and call a community meeting and just hash out the issues and answer questions from constituents. But it's all this packaging that goes on and how you present yourself as a candidate: how you look, who you're next to, what issues you focus on, what colors you use. Everything. It's all part of the very technical
Vasquez
In that first campaign?
Molina
Yes, that first time around. Because I had always looked at it as being. . . . I still am more issue oriented. And it continues. The issues become kind of insignificant. I mean, if you come out for the death penalty, come out tough on crime, get a couple of police endorsements, you've got it. And hopefully, you get a campaign that can appropriately package you. It's all this slickness, and that's troublesome to me. And it continues. It's getting slicker. Since 1982, it's much slicker than it was then. I was resisting it, but it was the reality of what I needed to do.
Vasquez
You mentioned in one interview that you liked working with Pat Bond because both of you were persons who could get into detail. Tell me about that relationship and perhaps in the context of what we're talking about now.
Molina
All right. Pat Bond is a consultant that a friend of mine had taken me over to meet. They said she was very good. So she had done a lot of
What was interesting was that Pat had all the same values that I did—about politics, the integrity of politics, the integrity of campaigning, about being honest to voters—but she knew how to put that all together within the framework of a so-called slick campaign, in a sense.
Vasquez
She brought you the best of both worlds?
Molina
That's right. Which is an absolute wonderful thing to have in a consultant. Because there are so many consultants who will outline a strategy. "This is what you need to win. Here's what you need to do. Here's what you need to
But she felt that her shortcoming was that she would not be able to pull the whole campaign out. I mean, it involved a lot of mail and a lot of work. And so she felt that I should hire someone else to do some of the mail that she wasn't capable [of doing].
Vasquez
That's Fred Register?
Molina
No, no. That was another group. We hired another group of consultants.
Vasquez
Who was this?
Molina
Gosh, their names escape me at the moment. It was Leslie Winner and Rick Taylor. They were consultants, and they basically put together my
Vasquez
Who was your campaign manager?
Molina
At that time, we had gotten Geneva Vega. Remember, it was [taken] from Enrique Valenzuela. We went to Geneva Vega. And Geneva Vega was doing the day-to-day kind of ground operation.
Vasquez
Did she try to coordinate all the consultants? Who did that?
Molina
No. Basically I did that.
Vasquez
That's what I want to know.
Molina
Yes, I did a lot of that and worked very closely with Pat on all those details.
Vasquez
Usually, they say it is anathema to do that.
It is. It's a crazy thing to do. It's about the worst thing you can do. But at the same time, I'm the kind of person that has to [be] in control [of] some of these things. And I was very intimidated about how they were going to present me. I wanted to be in charge of that. [Laughter] And I wanted to have. . . . I didn't want anything to go out without my approving it. I had been involved in campaigns where I had seen stuff that went out, and later on the candidate said, "Oh, I had nothing to do with that." I was involved in all of it. Again, I wanted to sit down and have that outlined for me.
Vasquez
At any point of the campaign did you have to disclaim anything?
Molina
Not from the standpoint of what we mailed. I mean, there are things that I was criticized for mailing.
Vasquez
An example?
Molina
My opponent, Polanco, did a hit piece on me. Well, he did two of them that I didn't think he was going to do. The idea was, first, we're going to do all of these positive things. All the positive issues. I worked very hard. Then
That just broke my heart. I mean, here I had been in all these marches. I had gone over to La Paz [California]. At one point, I was going to go and commit my life for five dollars a week and the whole thing. I mean, here I was, one of the so-called followers that had always been involved with César Chávez, whom we idolized. Then all of a sudden, the man writes that letter. He didn't even know me. He had met me a couple of times, obviously. But he really didn't know me. And he writes this awful letter about me. I was really personally upset.
Pat and others told me, "He doesn't even know this has happened, okay? I guess he's got Polanco's endorsement [request] so they just wrote this letter. I'm sure that if you called César right now, he doesn't even know this letter came out." But it was really a very painful
Then later on, they did the thing about. . . . I had gone out to speak to a group. I went to speak to a very Anglo audience. This one woman stood up and said, "Well, the problem with East L.A. is all those gangs and all those problems." Tah-dah-dah-dah-dah. She was just dropping it. And I said, "Well, wait a minute. The Eastside of L.A. has lots and lots of problems. There are gangs, there's no doubt. But these are kids that get together, and granted some of them carry out violent actions and so on, but at the same time, there's nothing there for them. The Boy Scouts aren't necessarily there for them. They don't
Then the other thing they did that went with that same piece was there was a picture of Polanco. Polanco and I are about the darkest Mexicans you want to meet. We're pretty dark, right? So here was a picture of Polanco and the good crime statements that he made. Tum-tum-tum-tum. With this angelic-looking face, that's very white. Then on the other side are my remarks about, "Hey, gang members are just like Boy Scouts. So why worry about them" kind of thing. Whatever my statements [were]. . . . And my face. . . . All you see is my teeth and the whites of my eyes. [Laughter]
Vasquez
Do you think that was done purposely?
Molina
And it was sent to the white communities.
Vasquez
Oh.
Molina
It was sent to Bell Gardens, it was sent to whites in Maywood, it was sent to Anglo voters.
Vasquez
For example?
Molina
Huh?
Vasquez
Give me an example.
Molina
I'll give you an example of it. It's really awful stuff. Polanco was not paying child support. I guess his wife had called the campaign. While I didn't know about it, his wife started a dialogue with one of the campaign staffers and then later on with the consultants. And it was pretty bad. She wanted it exposed. So when they came to me and said, "This is the situation. He owes all this money." "Gee," I said, "I know the little kid." I guess he had remarried. So the whole issue was on child support. So they started building this piece. It was a really awful hit piece, but it was the truth. And we sent it out eventually. We sent it out after they did a
Vasquez
Which decisions are these?
Molina
Well, like the mailing of these pieces and how you're going to respond on some of these things that they're hitting you with. My feeling on the César Chávez letter was, "Hey, I'll go get César Chávez." You can't do that, right? I mean, you have to figure out how you're going to handle it. So anyway, we had one of these meetings where they presented these hit pieces. I thought they were awful, and I didn't think it was anything I wanted to send out. They told me that the way they were evaluating the race, we were neck-and-neck. I said, "No. My reception is wonderful out there. I talked to these people. I know they're going to vote for me." And tah-dah-dah-dah-dah. And they said, "That's not the way we're reading it. Here's the situation." They had done some polling.
Vasquez
Who did your polling?
Molina
They did.
Vasquez
The same persons?
Same. . . . And it was just some informal polling that they had done to see where we were. We were neck-and-neck, and I knew he wasn't working as hard. He wasn't walking it like I was walking it. I knew he wasn't doing those things.
Vasquez
Did you find that strange? Because some of the people that supported him are known for hard campaign work.
Molina
Well, I don't know why they weren't walking. It was shocking me, absolutely, that we would go into areas that had not been walked. The way we set up our plan, we were going to walk the whole district. I was going to walk all the high voter turnout areas. So I spent all morning long making phone calls for money, and then all afternoon—till about 7:30 or 8:00—walking, and then attending various meetings. That's what they were telling me at the time. Then they told me we were going to do this hit piece. I said no the first time. Then I got bloodied up by the consultants who felt, "Hey, you've got to do it." I remember it was a really awful, four-hour meeting with everybody advising me that I had to do it. And I kept resisting it. I thought it
Then there was an incident that occurred with these stupid little lawn signs. And it was a petty kind of situation. Everyone in my family worked in my campaign. My mother would cook meals on Saturdays and bring people things. She'd come and assist. My dad did a lot of things, but one of the things he did was put up lawn signs. So, I guess he and my brother had been out putting up lawn signs. We would put up lawn signs wherever people would call us and say, "You can bring a lawn sign." They found that they had been followed. And they went back to where they put up the signs, and all of them had been taken down. So my dad came back and told me. That really made me very angry, that Polanco was getting to be so petty. That where we were putting up a lawn sign, he was sending people out to go tear them down. And it just got to be that bad. Finally, I just called them up and said, "Do it." And then I made that decision to do that hit piece. And it was a very hard-hitting hit piece.
Vasquez
Did it make a difference, do you think?
Yes, it did. It made a difference, because it hit at the basic integrity and honesty of a politician. And, yes, it made a difference. I hate to believe that's what put it over one way or the other. But basically what we were doing was we were now swinging, and swinging tough, at both ends. He didn't stop hitting me. He continued to do so. But I remember it was one of those decisions that were made. But in every campaign, you've got to do it. Everyone talks about doing those campaigns, and you don't send out that kind of literature. You're absolutely not going to do it. But the reality of campaigns nowadays is that you need to respond. You need to defend yourself. You need to be hard-hitting and straightforward and direct, because people will generally believe a lot of those things. I think that the shot on the César Chávez thing was really a painful one. People admired César Chávez. To have the top leader of this country as far as Latinos were concerned say, "She's a bad girl," really was hard-hitting. It was totally untrue.
Vasquez
So you had to balance that. Did you?
Oh, we had to. And then, of course, the crime issue. "Oh, Gloria doesn't really care about crime. She thinks that gangs are just a bunch of Boy Scouts." You know, those kinds of things. So tough decisions needed to be made. We made the tough decisions. We stood by them. I didn't back off from any piece. I felt firmly that we did what we needed to do in that campaign. Of course, we felt that we worked very, very hard—maybe even harder than they did.
We had lots of volunteers. That's the other thing. We were able to attract lots of people to the campaign. A lot of young people that hadn't gotten involved in campaigns before. A lot of activists that normally didn't get involved in campaigning. We had people from all over, a lot of women, who came over and had never walked the streets of East L.A.
Vasquez
This occurred when it was said that volunteerism was dead as far as political campaigns?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
How much did you spend on that campaign?
Molina
We spent about $220,000.
Vasquez
All in all?
All in all.
Vasquez
That was a relatively inexpensive campaign.
Molina
It really was. They spent about the same thing. One of the things about having Pat Bond is she knows how to get the biggest bang for the buck, as they say. So she was very good at managing the money and getting us what we. . . . You know, maximizing our opportunity to use that money every single way by leveraging every single opportunity. So she was very effective with regard to that. But we had to raise it, and it was tough, tough money to raise. Because my money came in little checks. The $25 checks. The $50 checks. I mean, we jumped for joy when we got a $100 check. But most of it was little money. Lots of little money. I had lots of little contributors. So to raise $220,000 the hard way is really hard. [Laughter]
Vasquez
Who were your biggest contributors?
Molina
The biggest contributors were women's PACs [political action committees]. They just formed a couple of them. The National Women's Education Fund [NWEF], I think, in the end probably gave me about $3,500, which is a lot. The State Women's
But the other thing that I also got, even though it wasn't a big chunk of money, was I would get those women's PACs to turn around and get other women to contribute to me—the $100, the $50. I got lots of small donations from women's groups throughout [the country]. I would get the NWPC [National Women's Political Caucus] of Bakersfield that sent me a check, or something like that, that was really kind of nice. So we had support groups all over, and we made a big campaign about getting the first Latina elected. We used it—there's no doubt—saying that was an important goal to be achieved. And getting them to invest money in it.
Vasquez
Some people say that instead of being a
Molina
Oh, it's true. We took advantage of all of that. I mean, my activism comes from the community and my involvement with Latinas and women. So I was able to turn around and utilize all of that. And it worked. Pat Bond, who was the campaign consultant, was very nervous. She said, "Well, women's groups. They talk, but I don't know if they're really going to invest money and really give you the dollars." Instead, what we did was send some strong, strong letters and made it the issue with these women's groups, so that we got the dollars. In fact, toward the end of the campaign, we were short on money that we really needed. At this point, we hadn't really gone into a deficit. We were very thrifty all the way through. But we really did need some money to do a last-minute mailing. And we were getting ready to send out a letter.
Then the L.A. Times started doing its final
Vasquez
Who was this? Do you remember?
Yes. Kevin Roderic was the writer with the L.A. Times. A good guy. But that was his conclusion. So his basic assessment was saying that Polanco would probably win this race. That was a painful article to get, because we had been working so hard. Here was the last week, and here was somebody that just threw cold water over the whole thing, right? And it was interesting because Joy Picus, who is in city council here, called me up. She said, "Oh, that makes me so angry, what he said." She said, "I'm going to call up some people and get them to help you." I had called her two weeks before that to help me with some money. And after that article came up, she said, "It made me so angry. I'm going to get you some money. I'm going to call up some people and get you some checks." What we did was we
Did it work?
Molina
It worked. We quickly got in an awful lot of money. In fact, we went over our budget. Not only were we able to do that last little bit of mail. We had this extra money. All of a sudden, we had, like, $7,000 or $8,000 that wasn't in the budget—that we really didn't need. Well, what are we going to do with that? Either have a great victory party or defeat party.
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
We decided to put it into radio. We did a couple of radio ads.
Vasquez
Tell me about those ads.
Molina
Well, it was interesting. They were a last-minute kind of thing. It was almost the last week of the campaign. Pat wrote them up. It was interesting the way she did them. She used [John] Kennedy in the background, which is the other symbolic thing for the Latino community. Kennedy was in the background making some kind of
Vasquez
So you used the "L word"? You used the L word, liberal?
Molina
[Laughter] That's true. Of course, at that time, it was very different.
Vasquez
It was different then?
Molina
Yes, it was different.
Vasquez
I raise things like that, because for future readers of this interview, it might be interesting to see how quickly political labels and images changed in our time.
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
Did you use Spanish radio at all?
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative] We did about two Spanish ads and one English ad on the radio.
Vasquez
What was the thrust of the Spanish-language ad?
Molina
It was basically the same thing.
Vasquez
A translation of the same thing?
Molina
Yes, I think it was the same thing. But it [also had] a Kennedy kind of speech and music that was . . .
Whose idea was the Kennedy background?
Molina
Pat Bond. See, she really believes—and like everyone—what you needed was Kennedy. And I couldn't get Kennedy. Polanco got Kennedy, by the way. He got [United States Senator Edward M.] Ted Kennedy. And so that's how she sort of introduced it.
Vasquez
Which of the Kennedys was in the background? John Kennedy?
Molina
Yes. It was John Kennedy's speech going on in the background. It kind of dies down, and then this announcer comes on in the tradition of Kennedy. [Laughter] Sort of like that. I can't remember it exactly, but we had extra money to do those ads. And you'll never know with radio if it works or it doesn't work. But we found that with the Spanish-speaking radio, press, and so on, that in many instances, you had household situations very similar to my own. And that's one thing that I told Pat about. I said that my mother listened to the radio. My mother watches Channel 34, Spanish-language TV. And she doesn't vote. She's not a citizen. But she talks about those things at the dinner table and all the rest
Vasquez
Who transmit the message, huh?
Molina
That's right. You know, if your mother says, "M'hijo, you go and vote for her," I mean, that's a real important message. [Laughter]
Vasquez
That's a good endorsement, huh?
Molina
You bet.
Vasquez
Okay. You got elected, and then you went on to run against Donald Hyde [in the general election]. Tell me about Donald Hyde. Is there anything worth . . ?
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
Do you even remember anything?
Molina
I never met him. I didn't meet him until about four years later. But he's a man that used to
Vasquez
He was just a name on the ballot, huh?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
Okay. Tell me about your first term. Did you get an orientation?
Molina
[Laughter] You know, you think you've been around. I had worked for Torres. I had worked for Willie Brown. But very frankly, I had always been in the field. I hadn't been up in Sacramento. So now I was on my way up. And it was interesting, because the majority—or the
Vasquez
Did she help you in the campaign?
Molina
Oh, yes. By the way, it has to be said that Maxine gave me my first money. I had worked with Maxine Waters when we were both AA's. I used to be with Art Torres, and she was, I think, with [Los Angeles Councilman David] Cunningham here in the city council. So we used to work together, and we used to go to all those white women's groups, Maxine and I. And Maxine was no different than I was. I mean, she went to those meetings and attended and participated. But she wasn't going to let them dictate to her. I mean,
Well, I went and met with her and I told her I was going to be running and gave her the whole story about why I thought I could win and so on. And very frankly Maxine said, "Well, what you need is some money," and wrote me a check right there and then and gave me my first $5,000, which is how we opened the office and got the first set of phones. Because she was absolutely right. That's what we didn't have. We didn't have our little seed money.
Vasquez
You had everything else? You had endorsements.
Molina
Right.
Vasquez
You had volunteers, you had issues . . .
Molina
We had all the little [money]. . . . We had not gotten $5,000 from anyone.
Vasquez
So she started you off?
Molina
Yes. She sort of primed it and got it started.
Vasquez
That's way before you got elected?
Molina
That's right. Way before I got elected. She was right in the beginning of it. Like I said, they [Democratic incumbents] were not expecting me to win. A lot of them had supported my opponent. But I went up there.
Vasquez
Was there an official orientation of any kind that you remember?
Molina
Yes, they do have one. And keep in mind, I entered the legislature with almost twenty-three other members. We were the so-called largest freshman class they had ever had. Both Democrats and Republicans. There were a lot of us, new people. So it wasn't like two people came, and, "Let's give an orientation." They actually set up little programs for us. "Here are the rules, here's how you get an office, here's how you do this, here's how. . . ." They did the whole thing, and they did little seminars in the beginning.
Were they useful for you?
Molina
Yes, it was helpful to me. I certainly knew a little bit about it, because I had been around it. But for the most part, yes, it was helpful. There are certain things that even though you go through them, you really don't know about the basics about how to get started. But I went up there and did. . . . You know, I hired my staff and put together all the beginning parts of it. Basically, we met with the speaker and told him what committees we wanted.
Vasquez
What committees did you ask for?
Molina
Well, at the beginning, I asked for the Health Committee, Finance and Insurance Committee, and the Revenue and Taxation Committee.
Vasquez
There's an apocryphal story of you being greeted by one of your new colleagues saying, "Oh, good. Now we have someone to deal with child care and health" or some other domestic issue. And you said something to the effect . . .
Molina
Right. I said, "It's about time."
Vasquez
[You wanted to be] on Finance and Insurance, or Revenue and Taxation, I believe.
Molina
For exactly that reason. Because that was
Now with me, in selecting the committees, I said to myself, "What is it that I want to work on?" Now I knew the health issues. The other thing was people said, "Oh, you've got to work on educational issues." And while I didn't want to work on educational issues, I also found that that's where all the minority members were, in that committee. So I looked at all the other committees, and I knew the most powerful one was Finance and Insurance. You know, to start out with, you ask for the most powerful one, right?
Vasquez
You drew vice chair on the Committee on Public Employment and Retirement?
Molina
Right.
Labor and Employment, Revenue and Taxation, Utilities and Commerce?
Molina
Right.
Vasquez
Select Committee on Small Businesses, the Commission of the Californias.
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
Do you think that was a terribly bad draw?
Molina
No, of course not. It was pretty good. But one of the things that you have to remember. . . . First of all, what Willie did that year was he allowed no Republicans to be chairs. So that meant that every single Democrat either got to be a chair or a vice chair. So all of us freshman members got to be vice chairs of something. The public employees retirement system is not one of the most prominent committees. I got to be vice chair of that committee. Which was good though, because I enjoyed doing whatever I sat on, by the way. I'm one of those that. . . . The most obscure committee I can find interesting and make something out of it. But I did enjoy my tenure on that committee. I was vice chair of that committee, which meant basically no duties or responsibilities at all other than the title.
He did give me Revenue and Taxation, and I liked that. And I really wanted to learn it. It was a tough committee.
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
A tough committee because it is such a complex area that you had to devote a lot of time to understand how our taxation system really does work and how you pull together the revenues. All of that. And I must tell you that I did not do it the justice that it deserved on my part. Because I ended up doing so many other things the minute I got there that I thought, "Oh, I'll be able to devote more time." But I didn't have the time to devote to the learning of that committee. And I always said to myself, "I need to go away and forget all this and just read up on how it all works." So I was sort of learning as I was going through the process.
Vasquez
But this was the committee you wanted?
Molina
This was one of the committees I wanted. There's no doubt about it. So that committee. . . . And then they didn't give me the Health Committee. I got put on the Labor Committee, which was fine. Those were. . . . I enjoyed everything that I was
Vasquez
Was it?
Molina
I went to one, and that was it. They play golf all day Saturday. They go on a boat all day Sunday. It wasn't what I thought it was going to be. I think I went to one meeting in San Diego.
Vasquez
It wasn't a serious effort in your mind?
Molina
They weren't going to discuss anything that was going to be worthwhile. I mean, if you wanted to go on these little junkets, you know. So it wasn't very interesting, to say the least.
But anyway, you have all this committee work, and then you get there. And all of a sudden, "I'm a legislator. I've got to introduce legislation." Of course, there's nobody that helps you with that or assists you with that. And you've got all these great ideas. Well, let's see. . . . You know, you're almost in this situation. But the reality is you only have a certain period of time to introduce certain legislation. There were some people that came to me with bills, and they were like the bills that nobody ever took.
Vasquez
Why? They thought you were an easy touch?
Molina
Yes. Yes.
Vasquez
Give me some examples of some of the things that they brought you.
Molina
Let me see if I can. . . . I can't even remember some of them. Some of them dealt with affirmative action, and the legislature wasn't going to be a big fan of it. Some of them were certain kind of social service programs that were very elaborate. I got things like, you know, mandatory. . . . Which is a good issue now. It's a very prominent one. Mandatory. . . . Under
I wanted to do some things in education. I wanted to do some things on insurance. I introduced my insurance bills. I did a couple of things in education. But it was very hard, because I didn't have. . . . I mean, I had a secretary and an assistant. And it all started going real fast right away. There was no research time. There wasn't a day that you could go and say, "Okay, I'm going to go and sit down and do this research." I mean, where do you start on all of this legislation after figuring out, you know, who introduced . . ? If I'm going to do stuff on high school dropouts, what's the status of high school dropouts? I needed to go to somebody and be briefed about all that's going on. And I found myself. . . . My schedule was I would get up at 5:30 on Monday morning, get to the Burbank Airport, catch the 6:55 to
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
As a freshman member!
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
Because it was this thing about introducing you. The lobbyists would call and say, "I want you to meet some of our association." You knew that you had to get to know them. You knew that part of the reality of being up there is knowing these various groups and these lobbyists. Fundraising was going to continue. They're the ones that gave you the money. So I found myself every evening going boom-boom-boom—the cocktail
You go through session on Thursday. You get on a flight back to L.A. at 1:30 or 3:30. You've got all the stuff in the district. Now, you've got to run off and go to the Mexican-American Bar Association installation dinner on Thursday night and present a plaque. Then the next day, you've got Friday in your office. You're meeting with constituents and staff and catching up and everything else. On Saturday, you run around and you do all these other things. Sunday, here you go. Then you get up on Monday at 5:30 and get to Burbank and go. . . . Where was all this thinking and creative time? I couldn't find it. That was the beginning of that whirlwind. And let me tell you that within three months, I thought I was going nuts. I felt so absolutely useless. I felt like, "I got into this system and I'm running this treadmill, and it's taking me nowhere. Why am I going to three and four cocktail parties an evening? For what?" Because everybody says you've got to do it. Everybody
If you're serving on four committees—for the most part, three or four committees—every week, you're having a hearing, listening to anywhere from six to twenty-two bills. Some of them are simple, and you're going to vote no. Some of them are very complex. Some of them are borderline issues. You've got to ask the questions. You've got to be prepared. You've got to be briefed.
I served on Utilities and Commerce, another complex committee. Understanding nuclear energy. Yes, I'm against it. But it's in existence. So now you've got to regulate it. How do you regulate it? Complex issues on all levels of everything. Even in this retirement system.
Vasquez
Your staff wasn't adequate, you felt, at that time?
Molina
Well, they were new, too. They didn't give you a
I must tell you that what scared me in my first couple of months was the fact that I was now in this position. And if I didn't get control of it, it was going to start controlling me. Then I'm going to be a useless person. Because I'll never get to go. I mean, I'm always going to be reacting to lobbyists. I'm always going to be reacting to their requests. I'm always going to be reacting to every group that comes in here that wants to have a little meet-and-greet session. I'll never read what I need to read. I'll never legislate. I'll never be smart enough to keep up. So I had a real tough time. My first six months were. . . .
They took their toll. In fact, it was personally a very frightening time for me. I had wanted this position. I fought so hard to get in there, and I had so many people who volunteered and so many people who gave their money and so many people who had the highest hopes in the world for me. Not only that, I, for myself. . . . If I screwed up, they were never going to elect another Chicana, ever. I mean, here I was. I had to go out and make it, not just for me personally and everything else, but all those people that supported me and all those women and all those other folks that were counting on me. I was finding myself just absolutely overwhelmed by that duty and responsibility. And I kept firm and strong. I mean, I'd go and make my bold speeches. I would go and legislate it. I would go and make my decisions before a committee. But I almost wanted to go home every single night, just shrink into a corner, because it was such a frightening and tough experience. Personally, I had some very rough times. Very few people know about it. Because, you know, on the outside . . .
Vasquez
Tell me about those tough times.
Well, the tough times were exactly that. That you went through the day, and you were just constantly moving. Boom-boom-boom-boom. But you went home empty-handed. You didn't really accomplish much.
Vasquez
Is it . . ?
Molina
And I felt tired and exhausted. I mean, what was I doing? I'm not fighting for my community. I'm not legislating anything great. I didn't make any marvelous or wonderful decisions. I mean, here I am. I'm a useless person. Why did all these people make that investment? And I felt that duty and that responsibility. Not that anything magical was supposed to happen in six months, but in my mind it was supposed to.
Vasquez
There was a big gap between being an advocate and being an incumbent.
Molina
A huge one.
Vasquez
Or is there one between being a legislator and having that gap between that time that you make the legislation and you see the results? Which of the two?
Molina
No, it was the issue of being an activist and an outsider for most of it. All of a sudden being
Vasquez
Was there a Women's Caucus?
Molina
There was a Women's Caucus that was superficially meeting and would meet every so often, but it didn't. . . . I didn't feel close enough. And I was very intimidated with my experience. My experience was just my own. It's always that feeling like, "There's nobody else having this experience. It's just me." My other freshman members, by the way, particularly the male freshman members, they were having a great time. Drinks at Frank Fat's, with Willie here, "y andaban por donde quiera." [They all went
Vasquez
Sort of a slate [vote].
Molina
Yes. You could follow it and sit there. And you could be effective. But I don't want to do that. I felt that I had to read everything. I had to touch it. I had to ask questions. I had to feel it.
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
I don't know. [Laughter] Because I'm intense that way. I just felt that I had to do it. Plus that's my job. My job wasn't to have a little cheat sheet and say, "Okay, that's a good bill. That's a good bill. That's a good bill. And that's how I'm going to vote." I felt that my job was to be there and to think on behalf of my community, to vote on behalf of my community. To understand what impact that was going to have on the people that I was legislating for. I mean, I took it so
Vasquez
What happened to the old adage, "To get along, go along"?
Molina
[Laughter] That has never worked for me. You know, I know that makes life easier, but I've always seemed to find it the hardest one to take. I didn't want to use the little Cliff Notes along the way. [Laughter]
Vasquez
I'm going to footnote that one. You were in college long enough for those, huh?
Molina
No. Very frankly, I didn't find out about them until much, much later. [Laughter]
Vasquez
How about the Chicano Caucus?
Molina
It was nonexistent.
Vasquez
Nonexistent by then.
Molina
Well, I mean, it existed in name, and all Chicanos belonged to it. But they never met, which was another big disappointment.
Vasquez
How about Art? Why didn't you meet?
Molina
Why? Because we have nothing to talk about.
Vasquez
Oh, really? That was the answer?
Molina
I mean, you know, they all looked at each other. And, "What do you mean? What do you want to do?" We got all these things to do.
Vasquez
Is that the way you became chair? By default?
Molina
[Laughter] Absolutely. And I made lots of things happen. I made them come to meetings, we made decisions, we got money together, and I did a conference. I did all those things, because I was very intense about everything that I did. In the process, I drove myself practically crazy. [Laughter]
Vasquez
Let's go over some legislation that you were responsible for and identified with. There's one thing before I start, and maybe starting on . . . . Well, why not? Let's follow your pattern of doing things.
Molina
Okay.
Vasquez
One of the controversial pieces of legislation that you didn't author, but supported, was having to do with work, the GAIN [Greater Avenues for
1. A.B. 861, 1983-1984 Reg. Sess., Cal. Stat., ch. 522 (1984).
Molina
Well, one of the things that happened when I first got there was, again, the liberal label. The liberal label means certain things. So when the workfare issue was being introduced—the first year that it was introduced—it died almost as quickly as it was introduced. Republicans had introduced this hard-core, ugly thing. It was very easy to oppose. It was ugly. But the concept was not a problem for me. The concept of having people working for their income—for the income of the family—was not a problem for me. Getting people off of welfare was not a concept that was a problem for me. I think people should get off welfare. I don't think they should be on it. Those kinds of things didn't sit [well].
Vasquez
The work ethic that you talked about earlier in this interview.
Molina
Yes. So during that summer as I developed a closer relationship with a couple of members, I started talking to them. I felt Democrats should get behind the workfare program, but not the way the Republicans wanted to do it. Because it's going to pass. The basic concepts of workfare are the basic concepts that everybody agrees with: people should not be on welfare; people should be off of welfare; people should not be given an income-free kind of situation; people should have to work. All those things. Those are concepts that almost every average person dislikes. Consequently, someday. . . .
So I started talking to some people, and I felt that we should as Democrats formulate our own plan. Of course, the other Democrats that I talked to—the liberals—thought I was nuts. Like, "You're not supposed to support workfare. That's a Republican thing. How can you think of welfare recipients working?" How cruel of me. Well, I said, "I don't see it that way." I see it as a real opportunity to do some things. In fact, I talked to two people, like Maxine. Maxine was absolutely opposed to it. I talked to someone like Diane Watson, who was in the senate, who said, "Gloria, it's because you don't know about this program. You go to San Diego where they're operating a similar program, and it will turn you off in a minute." So I did. I wanted to know more about it. I didn't have such a problem with it. So it was during that year that I started talking to [Assemblyman] Art Agnos about it. It's interesting that Art and I were in sync on that proposal, that we both felt that the Democrats should embrace workfare in some fashion, develop our own package, and by far not let the Republicans design something that we were
We did a couple of study things together. I didn't get to go to the first one, but Art Agnos put together a delegation of Republicans and Democrats. They went back east to study the programs that had been put in place—the program in New Jersey and, I think, the program in Boston. So anyway, they came back with a lot of ideas. To put it all together, Art Agnos and I started working together with a couple of people—a small committee of Democrats—and we started formulating our own workfare program. What did we want, how did we want to see it, what was important? I told them that I felt what we needed was. . . . And we did; we structured it. What we want is an opportunity. We want to get these people into situations where they can take advantage of opportunities. Whatever the deficiencies are. If they need an education, they should get them into school. If they need to be trained and retrained in another job, we should do that. We should do all of these things. So there should be a whole menu of things that they should do to transition from
My big thing was supportive services. I wanted, particularly, women and families that . . . . There should be absolute assurance that there was going to be full child care. That there were going to be full health benefits. All these kinds of things. So I worked a lot on developing the child care component and everything else. But let me tell you, we developed the program, and it was tough negotiating with the Republicans. [Assemblyman Ernest L.] Ernie Konnyu was the Republican lead on this particular issue. I mean, Ernie Konnyu was this kind of conservative Republican who believes that there shouldn't be any welfare system whatsoever. He's a Hungarian immigrant, or comes from a family that is Hungarian. He is very conservative. He absolutely doesn't believe that anybody should get a free ride at all. "These are all freeloaders. They are lazy people." All those concepts were
But a lot of us got together, and we formulated that. And it's interesting. We had to give in an awful lot. There are certain things. . . . For example, we would not give in on mandatory. We did not want to make it mandatory. I did not have a big problem with mandatory, but for the most part we wanted to make it voluntary. Why not? Why not create a mechanism where a welfare mother—if she wants to—can go to college while she's getting her welfare check. Why not facilitate her capability of doing that. And let her volunteer for it. She doesn't have to. . . . Why make her do it?
They wanted mandatory. . . . They insisted on mandatory. They didn't believe in child care services. "Hey, the grandmother can take care of those kids. You know, when my wife and I went to school, that's the way we did it. I mean, they can leave them with the neighbor." That's what the Republicans would comment. I said, "Uh-uh."
So we negotiated a lot of it. We worked very hard and we compromised certain things that we didn't like and certain things that they didn't like. But we worked together. We put together a package of workfare that is the best in this country. It really is. I still believe very firmly in it.
I don't believe in what L.A. County has done in butchering the GAIN program here. We were very disappointed in how the governor and the governor's people had let L.A. County get away with what they got away with, because we put in provisions. I mean, they have to do child care. They have to do all those things, but they had been administering it the way Ernie Konnyu wanted to administer it. Exactly that. "You get out there, and you work." They don't even want
I'll give you an example. Someone in my office whose mother-in-law was on welfare in San Diego, she hated me for supporting workfare. And she really tried very hard as a staff person. She said, "Gloria, why are you doing it? It's an awful program. My mother-in-law is going through it." So I followed her mother-in-law through it. First of all, the workfare program in San Diego was not a good one. They used to just get
What was interesting is what happened to her there. First of all, she didn't like going there at all, because they all spoke English and they wouldn't speak Spanish to her. Even though she could speak English, she didn't want to speak English. She was stubborn, and she didn't want to do that. So she didn't participate in a lot of things. She didn't like stapling and any of that. What happened is the dynamics of what started to happen. That is, she found herself as a translator very soon. Not because that's what they asked her to do. She found herself helping
Vasquez
But there are never enough.
Molina
There are never enough, and she didn't think they were good enough. She. . . . This woman would say, "She's not translating for you well." So she'd go over and help the social workers translate more effectively than whoever they had hired to do this translating that she didn't think was good enough. So she started getting involved in that. Eventually, this woman decided that she wanted to be a translator for the Department of Social Services in San Diego, and that's what she does now. She went into the program and was able to do it all—get her English up a little better. And I told Maria. . . . I said, "Why don't you think that worked?" She said, "Because they made her do it." I said, "There's nothing wrong. Would she have come out of her house? I don't think she had the self-confidence to come out of her house and look for a job." She spoke English, but she's like my mother, who says, "Ah, no, no, no." She didn't, but she really did. She just didn't want to come out. So in this instance, even though it
What was terrible was the fact that she was going to spend the next eight months—next three years—stapling for the rest of her life. Now, that's dead-end and that's unfair. We don't support that program. I support the program where hopefully this woman is going to come and say, "I want to be a translator," or "I want to do this job," or "I'm willing to do these kinds of jobs. How do I get prepared?" We provide the educational preparedness, the training, the OJT, and then finally transition her out of that initial job and counsel and guide her.
Vasquez
So you saw it as a vehicle that could be used for . . .
Molina
Achieving the same goals as the Republicans. Getting people off welfare. It's a terrible, terrible system. But, no, liberals still hated me for it. <
6. Matthews, Jay. Los Angeles' New Councilwoman Reflects Changing Ethnic Politics. Washington Post (April 14, 1987): A4 .
Vasquez
Who won the debate?
Molina
I thought I did, but then again you know how strong she is. [Laughter] It wasn't a matter of who won, but we presented both sides very strongly.
Vasquez
Did this begin to take the edge off of your liberal image?
Molina
I think so.
Vasquez
Did that help?
Molina
I think so. Well, a lot of people were surprised. Ernie Konnyu was just shocked. I mean, you know, they had considered me a slamdunk liberal feminist.
Vasquez
Did it cost you with anyone?
Molina
Well, yes, it did. It cost me a lot of those liberal groups and organizations. The unions were appalled that I took that kind of a position. The progressive social service groups were appalled that I took that position, but I felt so strongly about it. And I wasn't in bad company. I mean, I was with. . . . Art Agnos was
The worst thing about the welfare system is that it works backwards. It creates a dependence. It's an awful system. I think it will always need to be in place, because there are always going to be people in unfortunate circumstances. But it has become an ugly monster.
Vasquez
So long as we index a certain amount of employment figures in the country, I expect there's always going to be people on the margins.
Molina
Sure. We need to help them through that. I mean, there's going to be a point in time when even training them. . . . If there are no jobs, there
Vasquez
But it's a handy way not to give people any assistance if there is no job to send them to. That's what some people are afraid with this GAIN program. That they either get sent to menial, dead-end jobs where they're being exploited, especially in the private sector.
Molina
Well, they shouldn't be. The Boston program, which is the one that we formulated our program after, has been very successful as long as there have been jobs out there. The women have gone . . . . Most of the families have gone through major transitions, and they've been very good depending on the quality of the training.
Now, I'm not going to vouch for L.A., because this board of supervisors. . . . If I go there, that's one of the first things I'm going to straighten out, because we put in a good program. It didn't intend to be butchered the way they've done it. And they have done that.
So they've damaged the credibility of what I intended that work program to be. Even though we put in a lot of safeguards, they still have to do a lot of things before they can ever take away welfare from a person.
Vasquez
Let's move to another one.
Molina
Okay.
Vasquez
A.B. 1745,
1. A.B. 1745, 1983-1984 Reg. Sess., Cal. Stat., ch. 890 (1983).
Molina
You mean . . ? Are you sure it's not the teenage pregnancy bill?
Vasquez
No, no. This is something else.
Molina
That's a different one? Oh, gosh, I don't even remember that. All I know is . . .
Vasquez
Let me read to you some of the language. It might help you.
Molina
I don't remember all of the details of that particular legislation, but I think it's one of the ones that was brought to me that had to do
Vasquez
Okay. A.B. 1405,
1. A. B. 1405, 1983-1984 Reg. Sess., Cal Stat., ch. 897 (1983).
Molina
It is.
Vasquez
Tell me.
Molina
In 1983, the state of California decided that they were going to put all of the concessions at Olvera Street, which is a state historic park, out to bid. Which is the same process that is used. . . . Like in Yosemite, if they have a popcorn concession or a hotel or whatever, they put them out to bid when their contracts are up. So, basically, what they were going to do was put up all those concessions out to bid, which horrified the Olvera Street Merchants [Association], because they didn't know what that meant. And all they could see was that it was going to go to the highest bidder, and there were like no elements of what kinds of business they would be. You know, Taco Bell could now come in, that kind of a situation, and just take over restaurants as the highest bidder. They would have various little franchise groups that could come in and do that, and that terrified them.
So they came to me, and I went before the state. I said, "You can't do this. This is a
Vasquez
You extended the leases . . .
Molina
Right. At first, I wanted to not allow them to do it, but I could see that I was not going to have the votes for that. So the best that I could do was to allow them to continue their leases as is, not to put them out for bid, and convince the state to develop a criteria as to what kind of people could bid for those concessions—what kind of things—in order to develop a master plan as to what kind of things were going on in Olvera Street. I was concerned that there were many generations of families that had been there and that they should get some credit, because they were the people that have maintained the street in all these years.
So that was extension legislation basically to say, "Stop what you're going to do. Let's sit down, write out a plan, and figure out how to do
Vasquez
So it was a series of extensions?
Molina
A series.
Vasquez
But not a resolution of the problem?
Molina
No. Because what happened was—and, in fact, we got into a real fight with the state—the state did not like my interfering in their business. They see it as a state park. "I don't care who this legislator is, we're not going to do it." They refused to negotiate. In other words, they were just going to backpedal on the whole thing and they were going to make it rough for everybody. They refused to meet. They had a couple of meetings. They disagreed on every element raised. So they wrote memos back and forth for a year about clarifying what they first said at the first meeting. It was a waste of bureaucratic time. Then. . . . And they didn't
One of the things that was insulting to me right at the very beginning of the process was they had one of their state historians come to me and tell me that. . . . He had outlined something about some of the criteria of Olvera Street. And I said, "What does early California mean?" I said, "I've always known it as a Mexican, you know, kind of theme." And he said, "No. It would not be Mexican. It was early Californian." I had studied early Californian in the fourth grade, and I just knew that as the California Indians, right? [Laughter] I didn't know what he meant. The Spaniards and the Indians. What is it that we're doing here, you know? I didn't see it that way. I was offended by that interpretation, and I told him so.
Then I would come to Olvera Street Merchants saying, "What's he talking about?" I kept going to Grace Davis: "Grace, this is a birthplace of L.A. The city of L.A. should be the lead on this." But the state was playing lots of games. At one point, even though I have this extension bill there—and it was in existence—they
So the entire time that I was up in Sacramento, I fought the state on Olvera Street, because it was their intention of really putting these things up to bid. If they're going to put any theme in there, it was going to be a so-called early California theme that nobody could tell me what-it-was kind of thing. So that was my introduction in 1983 to the beginning of the problems of Olvera Street, which I have brought here to the council. [Laughter]
Vasquez
Which have come up again. Maybe you can deal with them out of chronological context, but now that we're on the subject . . .
Molina
Well, very frankly, what it. . . . It's been the same issue. The same issue is how those businesses are going to continue to operate. What happened . . .
We were talking about Olvera Street . . .
Molina
When I got here what happened is that all of a sudden I didn't represent Olvera Street. I represented across the street from Olvera Street for my district. So it was a little bit tougher. But the problems have continued. The state finally gave up and said okay. They cried uncle and said to the city, "You run it. You're in charge of it. It's still a state historic park, but we don't . . ."
Vasquez
This is under Grace Davis?
Molina
Uh-huh. But we want. . . . You design what's going to go on there. During all of this time, there were all kinds of. . . . I mean, it wasn't like things weren't being discussed. It's just that, at least now, the state was not going to be directly in control of it. The biggest problems in Olvera Street, we all know, are the fact that those are seismically deficient buildings and they need to be upgraded and repaired. It takes an awful lot of money, and nobody knew how to pay for it. And it was all kinds of . . .
Vasquez
Are most of those buildings owned by most of
Molina
No, they're not. They're owned by the city. The state. They are. . . . The merchants just have leases on them, and most of them have month-to-month leases on them. So they basically have been there as sort of serfs on the land almost. I mean, it's just. . . . Generation after generation . . .
Vasquez
In several families, there are several generations, right?
Molina
Right. But they just lease. That's all. So even the basics, like if they want to make repairs to the building, they can't go to the bank and say, "I want to repair my business," because it isn't their building. So there's all kinds of deficiencies in the way it is operated. So they're saying, "Instead of that, we would like to have something that is more comprehensive. How is it that we could not have ownership of the buildings, but at least have long-term leases, you know, for thirty years?"
Vasquez
Some kind of equity on it?
Molina
Right. "So that we can go out and get loans to repair this." And so they . . .
Because some of those merchants have made a pretty decent living out off of that street.
Molina
Very. Off of little puestositos [small stands].
Vasquez
Yes, but those puestositos on Cinco de Mayo can turn $15,000 in a day.
Molina
Oh, my girl. . . . I went to school with my girlfriend Mary Lou Díaz, and her father is a glassblower there. Let me tell you, when I went to school with Mary, she's the only one that had a car and lots and lots of clothes after this puestosito . . .
Vasquez
The Mexican Chamber of Commerce and the fight that goes on every year about who gets a stand for three days, because of how lucrative it is.
Molina
They make lots of money. Well, they can. They have rough times like any other business, but they do well. So then the whole issue became a saying, "Why can't we as merchants put together our own little development company and do something? We'll manage the street." A lot of ideas were thrown out during that time. And then, of course, here the other thing is there were some people who had designs on the street, and we knew about it.
Like who?
Molina
TELACU.
Vasquez
The East Los Angeles Community Union?
Molina
The East Los Angeles Community Union. They wanted to . . . There was discussion that they wanted to step in and manage the street and get it operational. Now, that would have been fine. But I know personally. I had a history with them, and they have a history with the community, and it wasn't the kind of history that one could trust Olvera Street to. And so the merchants didn't . . .
Vasquez
In a summarized way, tell me about that history. As I've got it in other interviews, I think it bears repeating from different vantage points of community leaders or representatives.
Molina
Well, the concept of TELACU was to be a community development organization that received a lot of community development dollars. That is, federal funds—poor people's money—to do good things in a poor people's community. But they violated that trust of the community—and I think it was something around the mid-seventies, beginning of the eighties—because they were finding that a
Vasquez
David Lizarraga, for example?
Molina
Yes. Then they were eventually cleared. What happened is even after they sort of got away with that or got out from under that cloud, they continued their sort of mana [stubborn habit] . . . . I don't know how to say it in. . . . I mean that same kind of situation like that. That they could continue to operate in this fashion and that nobody in the community was going to say anything. They became just a greedy, self-serving group of people that, very frankly, very few people trusted. The concepts that they began with were good, but I think somewhere along the line, the money really deteriorated a lot of
Vasquez
How did you detect that they were stepping in? Did they make a bid?
Molina
They started talking to the principals here about how they want to be one of the major concessioners.
Vasquez
By here, you mean city council?
Molina
Yeah.
Vasquez
That would be Councilman Alatorre. He represents that area.
Molina
Right. Then they started talking to Grace Davis. And they started talking to some of the merchants. The merchants right away, they didn't like them at all. They didn't like the ideas. They just thought, "No, we shouldn't have them." But Richard continued to pursue that relationship and that possibility, and that's what started the real pleito.
Vasquez
This was after Grace Davis left?
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative] It just got to be very,
Vasquez
From my understanding, in talking with some of the merchants, there isn't a monolithic organization. There never was.
Molina
Well . . .
Vasquez
That there was one group of people around Vivian Bonzo, to be exact, that perhaps represents, at any one given point, a majority number. But even within themselves, they're not necesarily all that . . .
Molina
There was always the Olvera Street Merchants Association, which was always the association that the merchants automatically belonged to. They were supposed to be the mechanism by which they worked collectively in the best interest of the merchants to work with either the state or
When Vivian was elected as a chair, she was probably the one that really solidified that group. I mean, she made them start paying dues. They all used to belong, but they never paid dues and they never really participated. Some liked it; some didn't like it. She started really working hard at getting them organized in protesting. Not just, you know. . . . "Don't just send a letter. Let's go out and lobby the members of the legislature on this issue. Let's do this. Let's do that." And she started doing . . .
Vasquez
Was she the one that came to you with the legislation back in the assembly?
Molina
She wasn't the first one, no.
Vasquez
Who came to you in the beginning?
Molina
It was two or three merchants at that time who said, "Look what they're doing to us." I said, "Oh, no, no. They're not doing that." "Yes," they said, "they're going to put us out to bid." And this is. . . . I can't remember exactly who the merchants were.
Vasquez
But it wasn't Vivian or her group?
Molina
No, not yet. In fact, I didn't meet Vivian until
Vasquez
Better quality of merchandise.
Molina
Yes, that they should do this. Very frankly, the merchants felt like, "You know, she's not going to tell me what to sell. If I want to put little Chinese dolls up for the Chinese tourists. . . ." You know that's what they were doing. So there are a lot of the merchants that don't like anybody telling them what to put or sell in their puestos, you know.
Vasquez
But these are the same merchants that want some kind of protection?
Molina
They want . . .
Vasquez
They want that street a Mexican street.
Molina
They want protections. . . . It's like anything else: "Only my way," you know. So, again, developing leadership and an organization has been tough. But what I think TELACU did is it took advantage of those situations and created different factions. It isn't unanimous. But I think that for the most part, Vivian has most of the merchants surrounded. The majority of
Vasquez
The problem that some people have is you move around in the community and you talk to people about this, and these are merchants that you have never been able to count on for anything other than looking for their own bottom line—education reforms, police relations, housing, whatever. These people may not even live anywhere near where the so-called Mexican community lives, but all of a sudden they're fighting for the integrity of the cultural birthplace of the Mexicans in Los Angeles. Do you find a hypocrisy in that or a contradiction in that? Does it matter?
Molina
It doesn't matter to me, because the place matters more than anything else and the integrity of the commitment that many of those families have made for a long period of time. I mean, I also know while Mary's father makes an awful lot of money from his puesto, I also remember that Mary's father was never around at Christmastime or weekends or any of those kinds of times. They
But I will tell you, that's true of any situation that I've been involved in, particularly when it comes to legislation. Legislation affects nobody until it affects them. It's not important what you do. It's unimportant. But then you start legislating, and all of a sudden, it stirs people up. Yeah, they're going to try and get that support and lobby you. For the most part, I mean, I've gotten people who have never supported me for anything. All of a sudden, they're begging, "Please pay attention to. . . ." You know, "This is so important," and they never gave you the time of day. That happens a lot in the political process. I think those are the dynamics of what
So they've been able to get the support. But it's also a generated support, because some of the attacks were so blatant. You know, they really wanted to come in and pull the rug out from under these merchants. There was that intent. "Let's get a developer. The developer will tell them what's good for them. Let them operate it" kind of thing. There were a lot of things that merited our involvement to protect the street. But I think that now you're going to see maybe some of these people stepping up and being much more supportive of these other kinds of programs—because they've seen a lot of people come by—and help them all of a sudden when they need help. And you're right. There are people that sort of sat on the sidelines for a good deal.
Vasquez
By the same token, there were people in this last series of press happenings—if you can call them
Molina
Yeah.
Vasquez
Who, if there's a camera, they'll chase it. They'll get in front of it.
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
And that had created skepticism among some quarters also.
Molina
Sure.
Vasquez
Is that part of the same dynamic?
Molina
Yes. But I think the issue is so prominent that we had always intended to blow the lid off of this thing from that standpoint. The only people who were going to step up and defend it was going to be the Chicano community. Because incrementally behind the scenes, they were trying to dismantle it.
Vasquez
Tell me how that was going on.
Molina
Well, for example, if you look across the street, you have Olvera Street and then you have what is called the. . . . What are they called? The other side of the street. The Pico House on the other side of the gazebo.
Vasquez
Right.
Molina
Well, that's been out to a developer for ten,
Vasquez
So who is "they" we're trying to dismantle?
Molina
The Recreation and Parks Commission. The Recreation and Parks Department. What they have done with this developer. . . . I mean, basically, that property is laid there. There has been nothing going on over there. There's no activity, number one. But second of all, they've come in with their plans. . . . In ten years, they didn't do anything. All of a sudden, they have fast food restaurants in there. They . . .
Vasquez
In the Pico House?
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative] They're going to take the theater that was there that, I mean, people have requested to use for Latino plays and everything, and, basically, they're not honoring any of that with the use of it. They are developing a French restaurant, which is going to be like the center point of the place—a French restaurant—because Pio Pico, when he had his mansion or his house there, whatever, had a French restaurant. They found those convenient periods in history when they want to do what they want to do.
Vasquez
Early Californian?
Right, maybe. I guess that's what it is. And those are things that create that sort of distrust.
Vasquez
All that has been going on since before you and Richard got on the city council.
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative]
Vasquez
Let me ask you a question I was going to ask way down the road, but let's go with content here. Why is it that people ask—and I got asked this a lot doing what I do—why is it that you and Richard had to go toe-to-toe about this in front of television cameras . . .
Molina
Because he wouldn't . . .
Vasquez
. . . rather than dealing with it among ourselves, if I may use that term, the way other communities in this city have learned how to do or know how to do so well? And, thereby, leverage a greater amount of money—uniting all the power—after some kind of a knocked-on, dragout and then compromise unity situation? Why wasn't that possible?
Molina
It was.
Vasquez
But . . ?
Molina
Richard refused to do it. And, I guess, I did,
So I think I was very respectful of Richard for a long time, because I didn't challenge him on it. I knew what they were doing. Then Richard had thrown it to the mayor. So during the mayor's election, one of the things that happened is that if the mayor was going to ask for my endorsement—and I told Art Gastulum that—I'm going to insist that he kick Olvera Street out of his office and get it on track. That is, what are we going to do with Olvera Street? How are we going to
Congressman Roybal and I had been working on it. The congressman said, "Well, we won't endorse him until he makes that commitment." And, certainly, I thought that's great. So the congressman met with the mayor and said, "Well, Gloria and I aren't going to endorse you until you make that commitment." He says, "I make the commitment." So we endorsed him. Then as quickly as we did that and as quickly as he won is as quickly as he forgot about the issue. I mean, you know. . . . I told Congressman Roybal. I said, "You should be angry that he's ignoring you. I'm angry." I went to Art Gastulum, and I said, "Boy, I'm not going to trust you guys ever again." Basically, he felt, "Well. . . ." He got an endorsement out of me. That's all he wanted at the time. I went back to
Vasquez
But you've known him for going into other people's district.
Molina
Every so often if I think [he did], I told him. I said, "I just don't think it's right." So what I did is about six months ago after hearing ongoing problems at Olvera Street, I'm going. . . . Problems, the pleitos they would have about not having a bathroom. The pleitos they would have about who is going to get the next lease. I was hearing all of these. And not just from the Olvera Street merchants. Even within the advisory committee that was set up that was supposed to oversee Olvera Street. So then I said, "Okay. The only way to flush this thing out is to have a hearing on it." I went to [Councilman] Joel Wachs and I said, "Joel"—who
Vasquez
Was it an ultimatum kind of thing?
Molina
Yeah. I hated doing it, but it just kept lingering here. It was not going anywhere. So then Richard moved to the commission. They had always been working on a so-called—I forget what it is called—like elements of a major concessioner. Of a development agreement. Of an RFP [request for proposals], they called it. A request for proposals for the major concessioner/developer. So all of a sudden
But then as quickly as he put it on the agenda, he had it continued, and he had it continued, and he had it continued. So I called up at the Rec and Parks Commission. I wanted to know why it was being continued. And it was, "Oh, well, the councilman had some questions. Oh, this commissioner had. . . ." Every single time, they had a reason. It was here we go again. So now I'm getting the runaround by somebody else. "Put my hearing back on." I put my hearing back on, and we did it. We took that department, and we exposed it because it was so easy to expose.
You have this guy named Jerry Smart who is basically—they had in Rec and Parks—who's been managing it. He called it "my park." He said, "This is what I do with my park." So I asked for policies. I asked for procedures. I asked for rationale, none of which he had. I said, "What makes you in charge of that park? It's the
Vasquez
What did you want it . . ?
Molina
Like a commission.
Vasquez
But not back in the mayor's office?
Molina
No.
Vasquez
Not under the mayor's office?
Molina
No. I wanted. . . . Well, I mean, the commissioners would be appointed by him. But I had to allow some of that. I mean, he is the mayor. But I was not going to have a public commission that did exclusively the work of this. And I started making these recommendations. Sent them over to Richard. "Richard, this is what I'm doing. You've got another chance to do the right thing." So he went before the commission, and that's when they set up that hearing. He was going to do the right thing, which was good. What happened was
Vasquez
Which were?
Molina
The equity issue about a developer. Before we had said that the merchants would have 51 percent.
Vasquez
By combining a group, merchants would have 51 percent of equity or the street?
Molina
Right. So that the developer would have some financial benefit to him, but at the same time, the merchants . . .
Vasquez
Uh-huh. Not control.
Molina
Not control. All of a sudden, Richard diluted that in one of his amendments. Of course, that's when that whole thing was being introduced, which we think Rec and Parks did. All of a sudden, the Chinese Museum is the issue. All of a sudden, the Italian Hall is the issue.
Vasquez
Who brought those in and why?
Molina
I think it was Jerry Smart and Rec and Parks people.
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
Because they wanted to create the dissension. It wasn't, you know, "Mexicans shouldn't be
Vasquez
Was he plugging for TELACU?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
At this late stage?
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative] Yes, he was. Very much. And they were in the audience. They were there, and they had hired a lawyer to come and do their presentation and everything. The commissioners were very devious as well, because he had gotten them all. He had gotten all five votes. When he introduced those amendments, I said, "We don't want these amendments." They all said, "Oh, okay. We won't support them, and we won't do this." But they were lying. What happened in the end is they did it just the way Richard wanted, and the crowd went crazy. They went crazy. Everybody. . . . And I got angry, too. I got angry, because I felt very
Vasquez
Apart from merchants?
Molina
Apart from them.
Vasquez
Academics and activists?
Molina
Right. A whole lot of people. And . . .
Vasquez
All kinds of people.
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative] She did. She knew it was going to be a fight, and it was going to be a big political fight. The way that this council operates it, it does, "Oh, my gosh, it's the councilman's district." And everybody will back off and allow them to do what they want to do. Very frankly, that is advantageous when it is
Vasquez
Does that happen to you? People defer to your council district?
Molina
Oh, very much so. Very much so.
Vasquez
Isn't that detrimental to you?
Molina
Is it detrimental to me?
Vasquez
Yes, isn't it? You're one good government?
Molina
[Laughter] I am not as intimidated when people challenge me and say, "I may be in your district, but I don't like your position." Because I'm good at going into their districts and not liking, you know. . . . I don't have to have. . . . I mean, just because it's my district, I don't stand up and say, "It's my district. I want you to do it this way." I think that I hopefully can make a good case for them if I have to use that, "It's my district," and "Leave me alone." I don't usually drop that line on folks. I usually try to tell them, "These are the reasons that I don't. . . . I don't want this, or I want this, or I'm pursuing this." But I've had members vote
Vasquez
Since the last series of meetings and hearings and the television coverage, have you been able to come to any kind of a rapprochement about it?
Molina
Oh, absolutely. I was also. . . . I didn't appreciate, in a sense, when we had those meetings of the kind of public display that we were . . .
Vasquez
That a lot of people did?
Molina
Yes. I mean, you know, good guy/bad guy kind of stuff. It's not appealing to anybody. It really isn't. I mean, you know, sometimes you have to go to those meetings in order to get things done. I mean, I'm going to do it if I have to, and this was serious enough for me to have. . . . But I didn't particularly like it. And I didn't think Richard was that off. If he would only back off from the TELACU, from the people grabbing on there, from the people. . . . You know, if they would just let people on that street make their own decisions. The so-called self-determination.
Vasquez
Isn't Olvera Street more than the belonging to the merchants and making money off of it?
That's right. It belongs to the city.
Vasquez
It belongs to a lot . . .
Molina
It's the birthplace of the city.
Vasquez
Right, right.
Molina
So, consequently, I'm not just willing to turn it over to the merchants either. That's why I want to create this city mechanism that is going to allow it to work in the best interest of the city. The merchants should be a part of it. But let me tell you. I agree with what Grace Davis said. I don't like Laker t-shirts being sold on Olvera Street. Now, granted, I'm not going to have a merchant go broke . . .
Vasquez
That's why some people argue that it was unclear what was happening.
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
Was the tail wagging the dog there?
Molina
No. And I know it looked that way.
Vasquez
Who was shaking you around, or were you giving directions? Who was leading this thing?
Molina
Well, it's no doubt that it has gotten to be a very, very big thing. But I am also one that does not believe that I'm going to make merchants sell expensive pottery and go broke in the
I went to Richard and. . . . I mean, I was angry with Richard, because Richard let, to me, happen what happened. It's not that I didn't give him any room. It's not like. . . . You know, a lot of people don't know that either—how many times, how long we waited, and how many opportunities he had to go in and do it. Now, if he wasn't going to do it, then he was going to have to deal with repercussions from his actions. But since then I have. . . . We've talked, and I'm . . .
Vasquez
Was there a proposal to bring a nonprofit?
Molina
He wants to bring in a nonprofit. I disagree
Vasquez
Couldn't it be made to have?
Molina
Well, that's what I want. Because it can be like a nonprofit board. The directors of the nonprofit make the decisions, and they don't have to have any public hearings. They're not under any government responsibility to have public meetings. You know, all of those kinds of things.
Vasquez
You would like to see a commission.
Molina
I would like to see some kind of a commission. Now, not that the nonprofit could not continue to operate. So what I did is I talked to Richard about the parameters of what I'd like to see. I told him. I said, "Richard, you do it. It's yours." I mean, I don't want to come in and say, "Do it. Me, you know, Gloria Molina has to do it. You do it." But I do want him, in a sense, to do it within certain parameters that are going to have public scrutiny. That it's not going to be a group that is just going to be appointed by the mayor. They go away, and there's no
Vasquez
It depends a whole lot, in that case, on who the mayor is and what attitude a mayor—he or she—would have to the street.
Molina
That's right. And to the puestos. The way he . . .
Vasquez
What's your system?
Molina
I just want to create a commission. An appointed commission that would probably have five members or seven members. A mayor would appoint them. Maybe the council could appoint two of them. However he wants to do it. Basically, it would be the same kind of commission structure as the airports or the harbor or anything else. Their sole responsibility is to carry out the function of Olvera Street. They should design a master plan. They should design all the elements of how they want it to function. How we have money that we could get over to them to do the seismic repairs. They could develop a nonprofit group that might be the management end of it. You know, that might hire a manager or a major concessioner to manage it. They would do all. They would do everything. But they would do it
Vasquez
Is there room for something like that in the city charter?
Molina
Yes, very much so. I'm hoping that. . . . At our last discussion—Richard and I—he's going to do it. I'm really hopeful that he will. I think he should take the lead, and I think he should build back that confidence of the merchants. Because if he's going to represent them, they should work closely with him. It's to their benefit. I think he should kiss off TELACU, in my opinion. [Laughter] They can go off and do other kinds of things. Then I think that, hopefully, he's going to be the kind of person that a lot of people are going to look to in the city of giving direction to this commission. So I'm hoping that will happen. I think Richard is very receptive. I don't think he particularly has enjoyed being on the receiving end of having so many people be
Vasquez
There was some pretty nasty stuff that came out of that, a lot of which had nothing to do with Olvera Street, from what I could see.
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
I would imagine he would. Well, that was a long digression, but I think I want to get it on the historical record. Let's go back to your legislation. We might come back to that. We'll see . . .
Molina
Okay.
Vasquez
A.B. 1407,
1. A.B. 1407, 1983-1984 Reg. Sess., Cal. Stat., ch. 1149 (1983).
Molina
Gee, we're going to go through all my legislation? [Laughter]
Vasquez
No, no. Not all of it. Just . . .
Molina
This is one of my favorite bills. Immigration consultants?
Vasquez
Immigration consultants that had to do with—if you want me to remind you—the regulation of people engaged in doing immigration consulting.
Molina
Yes, it did. I had an attorney—a D.A., I guess—come to me from Fresno. I can't remember his name. And he said, "We are seeing an awful lot of abuse of undocumented, of people who are trying to gain their residency cards and so on being taken to the cleaners by notary publics, by unlicensed and professional consultants that are going to get them their "papeles" [immigration documents] but never do. The way they mistreat these people, they take original documents from them and never return them until they pay them all their money, and they never do anything for them." And he said, "We need to find a way that we can prosecute some of these people and get them out of this business." So I said, "Absolutely." And I started working with. . . . Some people up in Sacramento designed the legislation that we would need to deal with this.
So this comes out of Frenso and not out of Los Angeles?
Molina
No. It came out of Fresno.
Vasquez
That's ironic.
Molina
Yes, it came out of Fresno. He was out there visiting and met with me. I thought it was important, because we knew it was happening in L.A. The Estefadores [a bunco division of the Los Angeles Police Department], which were in Boyle Heights at that time, had talked a lot about this rip-off that was going on and certainly knew about it. But I didn't know exactly how to curb it and control it. Anyway, we designed this legislation. He came up with the elements of it all, and we ran it through the process. Everybody was very, very sympathetic to it for the most part, because nobody wanted to see that kind of problem. The only thing is that there was this one aspect of it about immigration and immigration consultants and attorneys. The lawyers just became totally unhinged when we introduced this legislation. Lawyers do not like to be regulated.
Vasquez
All you were asking for was a written contract?
Real basic stuff.
Vasquez
Really? What were lawyers . . ? Why did lawyers have problems with this?
Molina
Lawyers had big problems with it. First, the [California] State Bar [Association], then the Los Angeles County Bar [Association], and the Mexican-American Bar [Association].
Vasquez
Oh, really. Tell me. That's interesting.
Molina
So they all thought, "Wait a minute. We are licensed by the state. We would not carry out anything unethical. Why should we have to do it?" I mean, "It's okay for notary publics to do it, but why should lawyers have to do anything like this?" And I thought, "Well, I think it's just a basic consumer right. Particularly these people who. . . . First of all, the contracts have to be written in their language. It outlines very clearly. The process is fairly well known as to what you're going to do for them, and the fact that you're not going to hold any of their original documents. What's the problem?"
Well, I guess. . . . They thought I was an absolute lunatic to be regulating lawyers that
I went out and I met with the Mexican-American Bar Association and their committee. I said, "Hey, you tell me the problem doesn't exist, and I'll go away tomorrow. But you know the problem exists. Even with lawyers it exists. So I don't think we're asking for too much." And I finally got some of them over. They helped me lobby the L.A. County Bar and the State Bar. But they weren't too pleased. One of the other things we wanted to do—this was the beginning of another piece of legislation I had in mind—and that is let's create a certified class of immigration consultants and lawyers.
Vasquez
How far did that get?
Molina
That got nowhere. I mean, that got flushed down real quickly, because not only did lawyers not like it, the state didn't like creating another category of a professional that, very frankly, they weren't going to be able to regulate. You know, what education should they have? It became just so complex that we decided not to do it.
Vasquez
What impact do you think it's had?
Molina
Well, it's interesting, because one of the things we never did well enough was to monitor what was going on. But the lawyer in Fresno felt that it was just the law that needed to be put in place to zap a couple of people every so often and to publicize it. That's what they do here in L.A. Every so often, they'll send out enforcers to go check some of these folks. If they can close them down, they publicize, and they do it. So it can be effective.
Vasquez
If there's a commitment to enforce it.
Molina
Right, if there's a commitment to enforce it.
Yes, because there are some real horror stories one hears. At least in my experience, as recently as two or three years ago.
Molina
Yes. What I've told TV stations, like [KMEX-TV Channel] 34 and [KVEA-TV Channel] 52 and the radio stations, is to publicize this as something they should demand. They're entitled to a contract as to what services they're going to get in their own language.
Vasquez
And reflecting their own particular circumstances?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
All right. Let's move on to something else.
Molina
Okay.
Vasquez
A.B. 3883,
1. A.B. 3883, 1983-1984 Reg. Sess., Cal. Stat., ch. 1058 (1984).
There was a commission [Sexual Harassment in Employment Project of the California Commission on the Status of Women] that was set up, like some group that had been set up either by the governor's office or someone had set up about sexual harassment.
Vasquez
Is it not the Commission on the Status of Women?
Molina
No. It was set up from the Commission on the Status of Women. What they did is they came up with a series of recommendations—of legislation. That group came to me and asked if I would introduce this bill, which I did, because it was a good bill. Basically, what it is, it allowed women who left their jobs because of sexual harassment to be able to collect unemployment insurance. Very simple. Very basic. Now with the provisions under the present law, they could not. If you voluntarily left your job, you cannot collect unemployment. Well, it's not necessarily a voluntary action when you have had sexual harassment. I mean, it is for a reason. But it wasn't a valid reason as far as the state unemployment insurance operated. So that's what I had to create. It was interesting,
Right.
Vasquez
Does that mean your male colleagues?
Molina
My male colleagues didn't seem to understand the issue that clearly. To me, it was such a simple thing. I thought, "Of course. Why not? Why shouldn't this person get unemployment compensation?" They felt, "Well, she left on her own." But I said, "Sexual harassment is a very awful, tragic . . ."
Vasquez
Traumatic?
Molina
Yes. It's a very, very tough thing to deal with. Anyway, one of the other provisions that they put in was you have to—before you could collect—you had to go and confront. . . . Oh, you had to tell your employer, "I'm leaving."
Vasquez
You had to try to work it out.
Molina
Right. "I'm leaving, because I've been sexually harassed. And I think it's been unfair." Because if they didn't provide. . . . Before you left, you had to give some opportunity for the
Vasquez
"An individual would be required to take reasonable steps to preserve the working relationship unless the director of employment development finds it has been futile." That's the objective.
Molina
Right.
Vasquez
All right.
Molina
So, you know, I felt that in many instances, the employer was the one that perpetrated the sexual harassment. So it wasn't as easy to go in and say. . . . Again, in most instances, it was the top person in charge, or the people in charge were not sensitive to the issue of sexual harassment. So they didn't see that as a valid issue.
Vasquez
Or a good cause?
Molina
Yes. So, very frankly, we had to legislate it, and we got it passed in its first year. There were reservations, and there were people that didn't like it. They felt, here we are regulating the workplace again, and all of that. But sexual harassment is a very, very real problem.
To this date, at the national level, there is a very acrimonious debate about the rights of employers. What some people have called [employee-imposed] "quotas."
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
Versus nondiscrimination. Do you think this piece of legislation at the state level has contributed to an atmosphere more conducive to forcing employers to "do the right thing"?
Molina
Well, you have to. It's unfortunate. A lot of the legislation that I was involved in were these protective kinds of things that needed to be done, because the employer wasn't doing it on his own. All of my legislation of this type always never got supported by the retail industry. It never got supported by the California manufacturers, the chamber of commerce. They always opposed all of these kinds of things. But we had to put people in a situation where they had to do the right thing. Because they weren't doing it on their own. [Pause]
Vasquez
Talking about this kind of defensive legislation, there was another bill that you authored in 1984,
1. A.B. 3664, 1983-1984 Reg. Sess., Cal Stat., ch. 1163 (1984).
Molina
Uh-uh. [Negative]
Vasquez
Let me read you some language.
Molina
[Inaudible] Did we pass it?
Vasquez
Yes.
Molina
It was a very simple, basic kind of thing that we put in another way. That the defendant can protect themselves. I'm not so sure exactly what it involved.
Vasquez
But it's not something you remember coming out of a particular group or a particular concern of yours?
Molina
No. Not that one.
Vasquez
Okay. Let's get off of this just for a little while. [Pause] How would you summarize then your first legislative session? What did you accomplish? What did you learn? What frustrated you the most?
Well, what I learned. . . . I learned more about the process and how it really works on the inside. It certainly prepared me for my coming term on the council—I mean, being on the state legislature. But my first year, I didn't feel I accomplished all that much. There's no doubt that I certainly was involved in carrying legislation. I mean, not anything that I'm not proud of. Good legislation. I was on good sides of lots of bills. I know that I really worked hard at being an informed legislator. As a committee person, I felt I was a contributing member as far as debate, discussion, and legislation, because I spent a lot of time trying to become a contributing member. But I also didn't feel as accomplished, because the big thing, like the budget—the big issues—I and many of us were having no input whatsoever. None. It was decided by certain folks as to how it was going to be carried out—the education legislation, health legislation—all those kinds of things. I did not like the behind-the-scenes aspect of many things and the general acceptance of many members about, "That's the way the system
Vasquez
You didn't like that?
Molina
That was frustrating.
Vasquez
You never got used to that?
Molina
I never did. I always found that the most difficult aspect of what I was doing, because I wanted to challenge it. Example: I had . . .
Vasquez
You were still an outsider?
Molina
Well, I was not only an outsider, but I obviously was never going to be an insider because I couldn't fathom what was going on. That was part of the process. For example, in one of the legislative bills that I had, I carried the redlining bill that wasn't a new bill to the legislature. It had been introduced on a regular basis, and it lost on a regular basis. But I felt, "Well, I can go in there, make a presentation, and talk about how insidious this redlining process is to the low-income wage earner and what it does to minority communities" and so on. I worked hard in building the case for it all, in a sense. Actually, I'm not sure if I did it in my first year or my second term.
Vasquez
I think it was your second term.
Yes. But again, in that first term, the way that people just sort of accept it. "Well, the insurance companies don't like it, Gloria. I'm going to support the insurance companies." I knew the insurance companies were giving big bucks to these people, lots of money.
Vasquez
In an article that I read, you mentioned. . . . Peter Chacón, specifically, and, I believe, [Assemblyman] Charles [M.] Calderón were two of the people that you addressed on some. . . . That you approached on some of these efforts.
Molina
They were serving on the committee, and I pointed out how devastating it was to have Chicano communities redlined, what it meant, why their insurance was so high, and how unfair. And they're not sympathetic. They felt that the insurance companies had to do this. That they had legitimacy to their argument. I tried to poke holes on it, and they were not that receptive.
Vasquez
Do you think that's what it was? Or were they afraid that they would not get contributions?
Molina
They probably would not get the contributions. You know what's interesting? I used to get
Vasquez
For what?
Molina
I mean, they knew . . .
Vasquez
For doing what?
Molina
For probably letting them in the door to talk to me occasionally. I have no idea, but. . . . I didn't get great. . . . I didn't get $5,000, maybe, like other members got, or $10,000. But, you know, if I invited them to an event, I got two or three insurance companies to send me money. You know, certainly not to the extent that other members have probably. . . . See, I disagreed with them, and I felt very firmly that I should tell them why and so on. So I thought, "They gave me a donation. Granted, it may not have been as much. But. . . ." At least I carried on a dialogue with them.
But, anyway, that was disappointing. That aspect of it. That hidden agenda that was always there. That so-called Third House that existed, the lobbyists and their money. You know, I always knew that was part of the process. I just didn't like the way it so sometimes overwhelmed some very significant issues. And I was not
I wasn't. . . . Maxine is different, too. I mean, she doesn't have any problem with any lobbyist. She'll put them in their place in a moment and say so. But I wasn't allowed as much of that. I was supposed to. . . . You know, freshman members, they treat you like children. You know, you're supposed to be seen and not heard kind of attitude. Of course, they didn't like. . . . Well, I also had a lot of problems with the colleague kind of stuff.
Vasquez
What do you mean by the colleague? Every group has collegiality. What do you mean by that?
Molina
Well, sometimes because we're colleagues, we're supposed to dismiss certain acts and actions that would not be tolerated by any other . . .
Vasquez
By a noncolleague?
Right.
Vasquez
Like what, for example?
Molina
Well, sexism, racism, comments that are unethical, unethical actions, with a sort of this expectation of the good old boy network. A ha-ha-ha kind of. . . . I used to find that so repulsive and. . . . While I wasn't going to stand up and be everyone's accuser and try and be Miss Goody Two Shoes, I found that uncomfortable. I did everything I could not to find myself in those kinds of situations where I had to see or be a part of anything that I knew was something that I was not going to like. Because that's the only way I could distance myself from it. But a big part of what goes on is to be part of that ha-ha. And I challenged sexism a lot.
Vasquez
Do you want to tell me about any of the incidents or . . ?
Molina
My one incident was I was brand new. . . . But it . . . . Certain things were very natural for me to challenge, and I didn't see any problem in challenging them. Other people were so offended that I would do so. We had an incident after my
Vasquez
It sounds like this year's budget.
Molina
Well, I found out later on that was. . . . I mean, they could replay the tape. It's the same
Then one of the members stands up, [Assemblyman Louis J.] Lou Papan, and said he thought it was very funny. Ha-ha-ha. He said, "Mr. Speaker, could we keep the girls from fighting on the floor?" [Laughter] Well, I mean, me? I'm going. . . . I'm just. . . . That's the most disgusting thing that could be said after these two women—I thought—made wonderful, passionate speeches about how they felt about this budget. And I put my mike up. What you do is you put your mike up when you want
Vasquez
You were the only one not reading the cue card. Is that it?
Molina
[Laughter] You got that right. When I walked into the caucus room. . . . I don't know if Lou Papan. . . . We turned out to be very good
Vasquez
Did you get an apology?
Molina
Huh? No. No. I mean, the best I could do was [that] he not beat up on me. [Laughter] But what was interesting about that aspect of it is that he is in charge of distributing the goodies. He decides what car you get. He decides what office you get, whether you get a lamp, whether you get a rug, whether you get a plant. [Laughter] So he's a powerful character. Anyway, he didn't strip me of everything, although they could have.
Vasquez
Did it cost you anything?
In the end, it didn't cost me anything, because I eventually went to his office. Members had advised me that I should go over and apologize. That's what they advised me.
Vasquez
Tell me who were the members that advised you.
Molina
Oh, I don't remember exactly.
Vasquez
Well, what kind of standing? Your party?
Molina
Yes, my . . .
Vasquez
Seniors?
Molina
Senior colleagues felt that . . .
Vasquez
The speaker?
Molina
The speaker didn't. He stayed out of it. But there were other members that came to me and felt that was inappropriate. "Maybe you should apologize. You know Lou, down deep inside he's a good guy."
Vasquez
A colleague?
Molina
Yes. You know, "He didn't mean it," and tah-dah-dah-dah-dah. But it was sort of like, "Why should I apologize? He did me wrong."
Vasquez
Did you apologize?
Molina
Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I don't know . . . . Somewhere down the line, we had another incident, which was a good one. And that kind of
Vasquez
Was it just a flippant joke?
Molina
Yes. Right.
Vasquez
Is that what he thought, maybe, he was doing?
Molina
Sure, that's all. Like they all do, you know. People say these things, and it's supposed to be automatically forgiven for them. Well, you know, not all the time. Anyway, that was one of the other things.
[Interruption]
Vasquez
Now your first term that you were there was a decade after the Fair Political Practices Commission had been in place. Did you have a sense there had been any constraints or a leash put on the Third House? Did you feel that the Fair Political Practices Commission and the Fair Political Practices Act
1. Proposition 9 (June 1974).
Molina
I remember when the initiative went through, and there were a lot of people that were very angry about it. But these used to be the old people in politics. Again, people who had been part of the political process for a long time. Very familiar and comfortable with the way politics operated and the way money operated within politics. I must say that I was very unfamiliar with the way it operated at the time. But the. . . .
What was interesting to me is that within the framework of the Fair Political Practices Act and Commission and all the authority that it had, I was amazed about how far everybody could get away with it and what would go on with money and how much influence money had on how things were decided in Sacramento. That was so amazing to me that I used to ask older members who had been there a longer period of time, "What did they do without the Fair Political Practices Commission?" Well, one of the things that they used to talk about is the groups and the clubs that they used to have, that the lobbyists used to put together. Every Monday, you know, we had
Vasquez
Moose milk? Clam and chowder?
Molina
Yes. And how they used to carry out. . . . I mean, sometimes there were no rules. I mean, you could have all the members of the committee to dinner the night before, have a fun party and everything else.
Vasquez
Before a vote or before hearings?
Molina
Before a vote. Get them all together. They used to play all kinds of games where they had, like, a $500 bill under somebody's plate. That was the big winner of the night, you know. Went home with $500. That was the excitement of going to this dinner. Little things like that. I'm going, "God, I would have really hated being here during that time." So I felt that the system was at least eliminating a lot of those kinds of things. I wasn't around during them. I never saw them, but I've heard about them. And I still felt that the Fair Political Practices Commission and the rules and the laws. . . . I mean, there's still a lot of unethical acts that could still be carried out within the law very easily.
Like?
Molina
Like the way legislation was influenced. The big, big money. Knowing the weaknesses of some of the members. All of those kinds of things. Doing all of the preparation. I remember in one when. . . . Again, insurance issue. I went in and made my big case about redlining. Took in about eight people to testify. Flew them up. Drew charts, maps of redlining. Made an elaborate case. I think I bored all of those legislators. They weren't all that interested, but they were sort of paying attention. But I made a big case at one of my hearings that I conducted up there. So after I made my case. . . . In fact, the chair was sort of impatient with me. He said, "Are you finished?" "Yes." So they said, "Well, let's call up the opposition." So three-piece suiters went up to the table and sat down, and I was going to listen to them defend their acts as I had just pointed out. So they stood up and they introduced themselves: California independent insurance group opposes this legislation. The next guy, you know, so-and-so representing the California insurance industry. The next. . . .
Vasquez
That's all they had to do.
Molina
I couldn't even get a second to my bill. [Laughter] Not even a second. That's how bad it was. And it had. . . . You look at the way this whole group. . . . I mean, these guys gave big money to those members. Big money. And it's still the reason why insurance issues are so stale in this state. Because the people that make the decisions. . . . I mean, there's a lot of money involved. A lot of money involved that's traded back and forth. I used to get angry with it, and I know they used to get angry with me, because, "How dare I would say that would have an influence." Well, I would sit there and say, "My God. These men are. . . ." I mean, just because you are Mexican and you live on this side of town, you've got to pay more for insurance than a drunk driver in Bakersfield has to pay. You've got a good track record, you've
Vasquez
So you didn't get very far on the insurance legislation?
Molina
No, I didn't. [Laughter]
Vasquez
Your second campaign for your second term?
Molina
Cakewalk.
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
One of the things that, of course, occurs is
Vasquez
When did you start running for the second term? The second day of your first term?
Molina
Right. That's usually what happens. You start running immediately for reelection. In fact, you start raising money right afterwards. You start getting everything prepared so that you're going
Vasquez
Were you successful with raising money?
Molina
I must tell you that one of the things that. . . . I was a pretty good fund-raiser up there. In fact, when it comes to Democrats and women and minorities and all that, I did fairly well, because I was fairly aggressive about it. You know, I wasn't shy about asking the insurance industry about giving me money. I mean, why not? They're never going to get a vote from me, that's for sure. They knew it. Certainly, if they wanted . . .
Vasquez
They had to send up two- or three-piece suiters for hearings?
Molina
[Laughter] No. I had none of that. I never promised them any of that. I think that the only thing I ever promised to them was the fact that we could dialogue about some of these issues. That's about it.
Vasquez
Was that something that you let other people know? Did your opposition know that you were always willing to dialogue?
Molina
Oh, absolutely. I always felt that you didn't
Vasquez
They didn't want that? You couldn't get support for that?
Actually, I could for some of those things. They were willing to do it, but they knew. . . . No matter what that report is, they didn't want any justification. They're going to redline no matter what. They still do today, even though we've voted against it. In a sense, they're redlining all the time. But the point is it's got its influence. The money aspect all the time.
Vasquez
Now what did you perceive to be the difference or the relationship between the lower and the upper house? Between the assembly and the senate then?
Molina
Well, the lower house, or the assembly, was where all the smart, new, creative, intelligent minds entered. The senate was where everyone went to retire and become stale. That's the way we looked at each other. The senate looked at us as a bunch of little smart alecks that weren't good enough to be elected senators. There wasn't this great relationship amongst us. There really is an animosity between the two in their own way. And it happens every time. Like in budget sessions, you know, who's going to take control and take charge. The senate would remind us,
Vasquez
Can you give me an example of this? [Laughter]
Molina
Sure. When we got zapped? One of the. . . . One member of the senate, Senator [Alfred E.] Alquist, who is a senior member of the legislature. . . . He is in charge of. . . . I'm not even sure if it's the appropriate name of the committee, but it's sort of the Ways and Means Committee of the senate. The way they operate, after you get legislation out of the assembly, you've got to run over there and see, particularly, funding, if you can get it out of that committee. The way he does is. . . . I mean, it's like he makes the decision by himself whether you're going to get that money or not. Sometimes it can be so cold. I mean, you can't even get a hearing, because he said like, "No. This is not worth funding, so don't bother me with it," kind of thing. Which is a real tough
So we were all waiting, and he used to be mean to us. He was so mean to us freshman members. He knew who we were. You had to sign up for legislation that day. It's not like there's an agenda, and you'll get called. I'm not saying he's a mean-spirited person. It's just the way the system operated. But you had to go at seven in the morning and sign up to have your bill heard, right? First come, first served. Supposedly that was the rule. So you figure if you get there at seven o'clock, you might get on by ten o'clock, right? But that's not the way he does it. You just, you know, sign up, and he's going to hear the way he wants to hear it. So you could sit there all day long. And if you're not there when he calls you, then you just lost your bill. Okay, so you have to sit there ready to go. I mean, that's what he
So what happened is one of the members didn't like the way he did that. I guess he took one of his bills and said, "Forget it. You're not getting the money." He said, "I protest. I challenge you, and I'm challenging the chair," and he did his whole number. And, I mean, Alquist crushed this guy in a minute. You know, [Assemblyman] Steve Peace was the person. So Steve Peace muttered some words at Senator Alquist that probably. . . . I can't remember exactly what they were, but Steve interpreted to me, "You mean
Vasquez
Was it that day or the rest of the session?
Molina
The rest of the session. They were dead. And we couldn't. . . . He can't do that. We all sat there saying, "He can't do that." And he did. He did do it. He doesn't have to hold a hearing. He's the chair. As far as he's concerned, all the rest of the bills are dead coming over from the assembly. And we're all sitting there, right, waiting. We go back and talk to each other and say, "He can't do that." [Laughter] "He can't do that." And it was awful. He could do that.
Vasquez
[Laughter]
Molina
What was frightening for me is I had some wonderful legislation that. . . . "He can't do that." So I had to find a way how can we stop him from doing that. We tried all kinds of
But it was unbelievable. I have never been through anything like that and had to take responsibility for what Steve Peace had said. But it happened a lot. But for the most part, there was also a good working relationship. But as freshman members, it was a different kind of thing. If you were a seasoned assembly member, you had a better relationship. Of course, the assembly members go on to the senate, as Art had gone on from assembly to the senate. So that happens a lot. But even at the same time, when you're a new member, you really. . . . I mean, it's one thing that seasoned assembly members treat you as a little freshman. Well, it's worse when you go over to the senate side. It was. . . . They really felt that you should, I mean, practically not
Vasquez
Didn't you ever make alliances with some of the senior assemblymen so that you would be able to bypass some of that?
Molina
Bypass some of it. I don't know that you could bypass some of it, but there's no doubt. I mean, if you had legislation that was. . . . For example, [Senator] Herschel Rosenthal was a head of the equivalent committee on the senate side that dealt with utilities and commerce. Because I worked closely with [Assemblywoman] Gwen Moore, who was a chair on the assembly side, and I carried a lot of consumer protection stuff for utility for repairs, I always had the ability. . . . Because with Gwen and Herschel's relationship that. . . . When I went over with my legislation, I had that same kind of relationship almost with him. And that was true of certain members. You developed that kind of an automatic relationship with some of the members.
Vasquez
I'll ask you again. Was the Women's Caucus to the degree that it existed in function helpful in trying to get certain legislation through?
Molina
They didn't function that way. They functioned
Vasquez
Let's talk a little bit about the leadership in a couple of minutes, but first let's go over your second term. On the second term, the committee draw that you got was chair of Subcomittee on Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities. Is that right?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
You were on the Health Committee, the Human Services Committee, Revenue and Taxation,
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
Did that get any better by any chance?
Molina
No.
Vasquez
All right. Tell me about the committees that you felt you were most productive on in your second term.
Molina
Well, on the Health Committee. . . . I wanted to get on the Health Committee because I wanted to get involved in a lot of those issues. Unfortunately, again, in the Health Committee, there wasn't a great discussion or debate on the quality of health care and the issues of health care. Instead it seemed that all the issues were between the professionals. That is, the chiropractors versus the doctors. The podiatrist and the other doctor. I mean, how far are they going to operate? Up to the ankle? Up to the . . ? That's what we were doing, which was unfortunate. But I was the chair of the Mental Health and Development Disabilities Committee. I felt that, if nothing else, I wanted to really get more of a focus on how detrimental we had been in our inappropriate
There are many people, when they look at cutbacks, who think this is one place they can cut back on. I mean, ever since [Governor] Reagan, they've been cutting back on mental health services. So I try to do more of a leadership thing with that issue and highlighting that, making it an important part of what we were doing: having hearings, trying to negotiate with the governor, and things of that sort. But, again, by that time, I was involved in so many other committees and things like that. I think that is the year that I started what I consider some of my major legislation, which was the high school dropout bill, which was a very, very important bill for me. Again, there were a lot
Vasquez
You passed that bill on high schools. Tell me about that bill.
Molina
It did pass. I did pass it. What happened is, in trying to focus on the high school dropout dilemma. . . . Certainly when I was in the district and working and I knew about my community, I knew it as a big problem. A big, big problem. What I couldn't understand is why wasn't anyone seeing it and being as alarmed as I was by this big, big problem. So I went back and I pulled a lot of legislation that had passed and not passed on high school dropouts. Very frankly, it was always a funding kind of thing. Always, "We need more money. If we had more money, kids wouldn't drop out."
Vasquez
Counseling?
Molina
Right.
Vasquez
Curriculum?
Molina
I saw it was always minorities who carried the legislation, and it was Democrats who usually voted for it, and it was Republicans that usually killed it. You know, those kinds of things. I was seeing
Vasquez
You were learning to work the system?
Molina
Right. A little bit better. What I had done is I had requested also, the year before that, a study—the high school dropout—in order to do more of a profile, and a demographic profile. Because what I wanted to do was to show the state this was a statewide crisis. That it was. . . . That there's no doubt that there is a special problem in the Chicano community, and that's what I knew. But it was a statewide dilemma. And what it meant . . .
Vasquez
And not just an urban . . .
Molina
Right. What it meant for an impact on the state if all these Chicano children should not get an education. What it will mean for them twenty years from now. They're going to be totally dependent adults.
Vasquez
Much like the case that Raul Yzaguirre made this
Molina
Is that right?
Vasquez
Before Secretary of Education [Lauro F. Cavazos]. That it's not just a Chicano problem.
Molina
It is not.
Vasquez
Given that by the year 2020, 30 percent of all graduates will be Hispanic. It's going to be a national problem.
Molina
That's right. That's what I wanted to do. Well, what was interesting. . . . So what I started doing is developing the report and the information I needed to arm myself to go and really lobby this—what I wanted to do—comprehensive dropout legislation. Not just the counselor. Not just a pilot program. Not just a special thing. I wanted to do a whole comprehensive. . . . How do we end this crisis? That's what I wanted to do. I really didn't know exactly all the legislation I was going to introduce. I wanted a package. I also put together from the Assembly Committee on Education Democrats and Republicans, and I started a task force—in which hardly any member came to my task force meetings—on dropouts. But their staffs
One of the things that I wanted to do as well was to show every member in the assembly that it was their problem. So I asked the state to give me all of the data that they had on high school dropouts, and I wanted it done by . . .
That's what was amazing. That even the basic definition of what a dropout was was a difficult one for the state to define. And I thought, "Well, there's my big dilemma here." [Laughter] I said, "Boy, have I got a lot of work ahead of me." So we were able to put together a lot of figures. The best I could get at the time was so-called attrition figures. So I got all of that. I got a lot of members— Democrats and Republicans—to introduce different segments of this comprehensive package. That way there would be many of us who would become a body
Vasquez
So it wasn't any one particular bill, but a series of legislation that emanates from efforts that you made involving your colleagues?
Molina
That's right.
Vasquez
Do you have a list of all the bills somewhere that . . ?
Molina
Yes, we have it. We have it in a booklet form. We did the book. . . . The study that we did, "Whatever Happened to the Class of '84?" is a
1. California State Legislature. Assembly. Office of Research. Dropping Out, Losing Out: The High Cost for California. 1985-1986 Regular Session. Report prepared at the request of Assembly members Gloria Molina and William Leonard.
So I go through this whole process in the assembly. When I sent out. . . . Right before the day that it was going to come before the entire assembly, I sent out the dropout
So then I went over to the senate, and I did my same thing there. You know, I went over and got all the dropout data for all the members on the senate side and ran around lobbying it. I had lots of support from various educational groups. I got widespread support on the senate side as well. So I was just so happy. I mean, I'm on my way, and this is what I'm going to do. So I got my legislation out, and I got it over on its merry way to the governor.
Amongst these two years—while all of this was going on—is also the beginning of this huge black cloud over East L.A., better known as the East L.A. prison. There is. . . . We know that they're going to put a prison in L.A. County. My automatic suspiciousness. . . . "Aha. We have to be on guard, because I know what they'll do.
Vasquez
Subject to . . .
Molina
Subject to being one of these candidates for the site of the next state prison. Anyway, that went on and on and on. As it came out, we were. East L.A. was being pointed to as a site, and I was fighting it. And I've been successful in fighting it in the legislature.
Vasquez
How did you fight it?
Molina
Well, they had determined what the site was, and it was going to be East L.A. And I was able to can. . . . To make sure that that legislation never got out of our committee in the assembly. I lobbied, and I . . .
Vasquez
Which committee was this?
Molina
What's called the Criminal . . .
Vasquez
Criminal Justice Committee?
Criminal Justice Committee. I made sure that it got bottled up there. And I didn't . . .
Vasquez
How?
Molina
Because I lobbied the members, and I worked hard. Everytime I went up there, I fought the state. I brought in people to go up there and testify, and I always got it killed on the assembly side. They knew that they weren't going to get it out of the assembly side. Not while it was in my district.
Vasquez
The conventional wisdom is the speaker was willing to let that happen. In fact, he wanted that prison in your district.
Molina
Not as yet.
Vasquez
Not as yet?
Molina
Not as yet.
Vasquez
What was your relationship with the speaker at this point?
Molina
It was sort of okay, but not great. But if he was going to sacrifice anybody, I was probably the first one that was going to get zapped.
Vasquez
How did he get to where . . ? Is there anything to the conventional wisdom that, in fact, Speaker of the Assembly Brown was ready to allow that
Molina
Yes. Yeah, I supported a candidate that. . . . I opposed a candidate that he supported for the assembly.
Vasquez
Tell me about that.
Molina
Richard Polanco. Well, I was going to tell you about the dropout legislation in relationship to the prison real quickly.
Vasquez
Oh, okay. Yes.
Molina
Because what happened is in the end of that session, the senate. . . . The governor . . .
Vasquez
All right. Go ahead.
Molina
It's amazing. All this time we've put in. [Laughter]
Vasquez
A year. Just a year, Gloria. [Laughter]
Molina
Anyway. . . . So then. . . . What happened is the governor was playing real hardball on the prison issue. I wasn't able. . . . He has not been able to get it out of the committee. But it was on the senate side, and they kept on going to sneak it into a bill, and all of this. It was like the last hours of the last day. So the governor's people came to me, and they gave me a yellow
Vasquez
The Alquist approach?
Molina
Right. [Laughter] They were coming to me and saying, "Oh, Gloria. The governor is going to do this." Whining, you know. And I said, "Hey, I'm not going to take it. Just hold on strong. I'm not going to take a prison in East L.A.," and so on. So then they got real rough with me. They called me up, and they said. . . . What did he say? He said, "There's one of your bills up there right now, and it's a good bill. I hate to see it killed."
Vasquez
Was it the governor?
Molina
Because . . .
Was it the governor himself?
Molina
This is the governor's person. The governor, of course, never makes such threats.
Vasquez
Right.
Molina
"I hate to see it vetoed."
Vasquez
Which one was he referring to? Do you remember?
Molina
My high school dropout bill.
Vasquez
Aha. Okay.
Molina
And it was one of the most painful situations. We had worked so hard. It had almost unanimous support. My staff. . . . María [Ochoa], who had worked on it. . . . I mean, she was horrified at the thought that this was going to go down the tubes because of a prison. She was sort of, "Take the prison. This is so much more important." And I said, "I'm not going to allow myself to be bullied by the governor in this fashion. This is good legislation. It can stand on its own. It got bipartisan support. I'm not going to allow him to do that. If I do that, then I'm useless around here." Besides, I was saying to my other Democratic members, "Hey, stand strong, and don't let the governor do this to you," right? I'm not going to sit there and
Vasquez
I was a little nervous there that I hadn't found some of the stuff. Now I know why. All right. Good. That's a good story.
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
It's an important one.
Molina
It was an important one. It was a tragic one. But, anyway, that's how. . . . That year we had no prison.
Vasquez
All right. You're still an assemblywoman. What in the world made you decide to run for the Los Angeles City Council?
Molina
Did you want to talk about the prison issue and what happened with the speaker?
Vasquez
Yes. Let's finish that one. I thought we'd pick it up from this end, but let's finish that out.
All right. Because that's much later, again. What happened is the following year. . . . Again, we're moving through our legislation. The governor is still going to move through his prison legislation.
Vasquez
This was '85 or '86?
Molina
This was '85.
Vasquez
'Eighty-five, all right.
Molina
So here we go at it again. Now, what has happened is that Richard Alatorre. . . . What had happened was Councilman [Arthur K.] Art Snyder was going to resign. Very frankly, I don't believe he's going to resign. But I started talking to people down here and said, "I would like to run for that seat." So I started talking to people and thought, "This will be. . . ." But people started talking to me and felt that I should run. I could win and all of that. Anyway, I started putting out feelers that I might run for that council seat. I talked to Art, I talked to Congressman Roybal, and I talked to various people about it. And then . . .
Vasquez
Art Torres you're talking about, not Art Snyder?
Molina
Right. Art Torres, yes. So then later on, I get
Vasquez
Did you resent that?
Molina
No, not really. Because he was in a leadership position. I mean, you know. . . . I didn't. . . . I guess if there's anything to resent, it's the fact that he just told me.
Vasquez
But you also had a disagreement with his style of politics.
Molina
Yes, but even then. . . . And that was a continuation of that disagreement, because Richard was never going to let me in and discuss things with me. Even though as much as I wanted to, that wasn't going to happen. Richard was still, "That's the way things are, and you're going to take it, like it or not." And I wasn't going to be foolish enough to fight him on that. I didn't like the fact that that's what he
Vasquez
At least humor me, is that right?
Molina
[Laughter] And it was fine. You know, I accepted. I didn't. . . . I mean, I could continue working in the state legislature, and it was just going to be fine. Of course, then the big focus was about who was going to run for his seat. Again, it was one of those things that I didn't necessarily want to get involved in. I knew a lot of people accused me of being a power builder, power. . . . that I just wanted to be the power broker. But I really wasn't all that interested until I found out who their candidate was. And when I found out it was Richard Polanco, it was a real tough one for me to deal with.
Vasquez
Why?
Molina
Again, the basics. The very same reasons that . . . . Nineteen eighty-two started all over again. It was, "This was not the person that should be serving in this role." I mean, these seats are so limited. I just. . . . I always
At that time, Larry González was a school board member. Larry said he was interested, and I said, "Hallelujah!" At least Larry is issue oriented. I think he would be interested, he'd be good, and all of that. It was a real sad situation for me, because I thought Larry was going to run. I found out he was part of the political games. I should have been a little bit smarter. I will never forgive Larry for it, but I always felt Larry was pretty much the stalking-horse for Polanco in trying to get me off so that I wouldn't come up with a candidate or anyone. So as soon as the filing was going to close, Larry pulled back and said, "No, I'm not going to
Vasquez
They were not going to let you be a player, is that it?
Molina
Well . . .
Vasquez
You wanted to be a player. You were a player, as an assembly person.
Molina
I think that as an elected person, I should have at least been entitled to have a say. Now, granted, I mean. . . . I know that people don't look at it. . . . I just want to say my say, and then if you're going to vote against me, I want to know why. I think if I'm going to vote against you, I'm going to tell you why. But they weren't going to let me even have a voice. And you bet I resented that. When it was done. . . . Sometimes it was done very straightforward, and other times in a very sneaky fashion. The thing with Larry González and Polanco was one of the most deceitful things that I could see happening. It made me angry about lots of people
Vasquez
Who were some of those people?
Molina
"I just changed my mind." I said, "I find that hard to believe."
Vasquez
Who were some of those people?
Molina
Friends that I had: Leticia Quezada, at that time, was part of that group; Sandy Serrano-Sewell, who had been a longtime supporter; Art Torres had been a part of that group; and Larry. Then all of a sudden, he just backed off. And there was like . . .
Vasquez
Did all the other people automatically go behind Polanco?
Molina
Yes.
Vasquez
That would make you think they all sort of knew about it?
Molina
Yes. Well, I mean, it was interesting that they didn't find any discomfort with the issue. It just. . . . I mean, even though initially they had disagreed with me, "Oh, well, come on, Gloria. Go ahead and let Polanco run. What's wrong with Polanco?" I would say, "Here's the
Vasquez
Let me see if I can summarize it. You don't feel that he really had grasp of issues or had strong positions?
Molina
I feel that he has no integrity to pursue the issues of that community. [Laughter]
Vasquez
That he's beholden to a group of people that pretty much . . .
Molina
And beholden to wherever the power is.
Vasquez
As you told me, he plays to power. All right. I just want to get it straight.
Molina
[Laughter] They had sort of tried to make somewhat of a case. But I felt so strongly about it. Anyway, I felt a lot of those people were a part of it. I resented that decision. Anyway, I was going to just back off, you know. You lose, you back off, and the whole thing. So I continued on my way.
What had happened is that Mike Hernández had filed, because he felt he wanted to run for this seat. He started coming to me. He knew what had happened. He got feedback of what was going on
I said, "You don't have a chance. You're going to lose. There's no way you can possibly win. I mean, everybody is going to be behind him. They're devious, so they're going to do everything they can to win. You don't have a chance."
"Oh, but if you would endorse me, if you would support me, I can." Back-and-forth.
I said, "First of all, you'll never raise the money." And I set up a whole series of reasons why he could never win. "You don't have any endorsements. You don't have any of these things."
Vasquez
Ironic position for you to be in, isn't it?
Molina
Exactly. Telling him all the things that, of course, are always said and had been said to me in 1982. So I started talking and working with him. I certainly felt in getting to know him more and more. . . . Although I had known him, I really had not worked with him that closely in the past. And I said, "Let me see what I can
Vasquez
And your own campaign money?
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative] It made a lot of people angry. It made Richard angry, it made Art Torres angry, it made Larry González angry, and it made Willie Brown and the leadership very angry, because their cakewalk candidate was no longer a cakewalk. He was going to have to raise money, he was going to have to work, he was going to have to walk the district, he was going to have to fight for endorsements, and he did. We gave him a run, and we almost beat him. Three hundred votes difference. Almost beat him. So that's what made Willie angry. Because Willie said, "Back off," and I told him no.
Vasquez
He came to you? He talked to you directly?
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative]
Vasquez
What was his rationale? Or was there one?
His rationale was, "That's who we want." My rationale was, "That's not what the community wants. He's bad news for that community." I said, "I don't think that. . . . I disagree with you on that. I'm not going to back off."
Vasquez
He's been reelected in that community since.
Molina
Oh, I know. There hasn't been any challenge. No, we lost.
Vasquez
Do you think he has turned out as bad as you thought he would?
Molina
Oh, absolutely.
Vasquez
You haven't changed your mind on that one?
Molina
Not at all. There are more facts now than ever. Richard Polanco was elected in a special election, went up, was sworn in, was appointed to the Criminal Justice Committee.
Vasquez
Right.
Molina
After taking a position against the prison in his literature, in the community, after doing everything, two hours after he was sworn into office to uphold the law and to be honest and to tell the truth, he voted for the prison in East L.A. and got it out of the committee.
Vasquez
His argument, as I remember, was that it would
Molina
That was where he got a full hearing, but he wanted to have it heard before the full assembly. Well, that's a fine excuse. But Willie told him to do it, and he did it. He followed his orders like any other little soldier that Willie has. Against his own community.
Vasquez
So that's where the acrimony begins with Speaker Brown.
Molina
Uh-huh. [Affirmative]
Vasquez
Now, how does that reflect in your race for the . . ? Let me ask you another question before that.
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
Did that make you think that perhaps staying in the assembly might not be a long venture?
Molina
No. Actually it wasn't that. I knew that what I. . . . One thing that I have learned, and maybe it comes from my background with my father and that my father feels very firmly, is that you are responsible for your actions. I felt that, "I'll take a licking. And if I do, I'm responsible for it, and I've got to take it. If I'm going to be a backbencher from now on in the assembly, I'm just going to bite down hard and take it." I had
Vasquez
How effective do you think you would have been had you tried to stay in the assembly?
Molina
I think I could have been equally effective. The reason is because the issues weren't going to change all that much. I was never going to be a power player in the assembly ever, because I didn't fit in. No matter what, I wasn't going to do the little things that it took to be a power player in the legislature. There were a lot of people that had been there twenty-two years and are not power players because they just. . . . They do their thing, but they're not on the leadership. I was not on my way to a leadership role there.
Vasquez
[Laughter] No. That's obvious.
Molina
But I was able to carve out an area as far as my own district. Let me tell you, there are many people up there, including Republicans, who no matter what. . . . I mean, you may disagree with them, but depending on how you play out that game was a matter of respect for them. I don't care
As for as my involvement with Polanco, I wasn't the first one. I mean, am I going to get blackballed when I oppose the leadership? I mean, as far as when I first went in in 1982, I mean, Maxine had gotten the speaker [to say] that nobody was going to support Polanco or me in the assembly—that was the idea—except for Richard. He's the only one that got dispensation. Maxine and Richard. Maxine for me, and Richard Alatorre for Polanco. But on a regular basis, members will participate in those. But all of a sudden, I was going to be treated differently.
But I knew I was going to be a backbencher, because it wasn't just that. It was going to be a whole series of things, and I was starting to challenge even more. I was starting to challenge the lack of leadership in certain areas. That was a problem beyond just, you know, in East L.A. I was concerned about why we weren't moving forward
But the point is that's not really why I left. When I was. . . . Richard had run for the council seat, and now he was there. It was a situation where I'm up there, and I really loved the education and the health care issues and those things I really wanted to start focusing on. I didn't have any problem with the fact that I wasn't on my way to be big leadership, but I still had a vote. I still had a voice. I still had committee participation. I was going to still be able to participate in legislation. And I wasn't. . . . I didn't feel hindered in any way. I guess other people may have looked at me
Vasquez
Larry González?
Molina
I said, "Now, that can't be right. That can't . . . ." So, I mean. . . . I started talking, because there were a couple of people that I heard were going to run. So I went to them, and I said, "Aren't you going to run for this seat?"
Vasquez
Who were those people?
Molina
One was [Daniel] Dan García, who is a lawyer and, at that time, was part of the [Los Angeles City] Planning Commission. I had heard that he was one of the people that was going to run. And I had liked the things that Dan had done, and I liked his independence and his strength and his intelligence. I thought he would be a perfect person, you know, who. . . . In the city council and was one of our elected officials. I went to him, and he basically said no, he couldn't. He had personal problems, and financially it just
Vasquez
Who was the other one?
Molina
The other one was [Edward J.] Ed Avila. I went to Ed, and I said, "Are you going to run?" He said, "No, no. That's not what I want to do." And I said, "But Ed, it would be perfect if you do this." Both of them lived in the district. The whole thing. These were people that I thought were going to run. And they didn't. So, again, that's. . . . I started looking at it and looking at it and kept hoping that someone was going to step up to the plate other than Larry, and I really had a problem with Larry. I had a problem because of what he had done before. You know, that "bright, young, great" leadership person that I thought he was became a very different person when he played out that last game for Polanco. So I didn't have any faith in him whatsoever.
So little by little, I started looking at it, and I started thinking about it. I was going to get married. We were. . . . I thought about it, and I said, "It might not be bad." The only thing that I really had a lot of reservations
Vasquez
Or education.
Molina
I no longer work on education issues. That was the part that was very hard for me to separate from. So as I started looking at it. . . . Then I just finally decided to run for the seat.
Vasquez
All right. Did you get married? It might not be so bad to come back.
Molina
[Laughter] So I did decide that I finally should run for this seat. It was really one of the best decisions I made. It really was.
Vasquez
Let's get into that the next time. But let me ask you a dirty pool question to end the day's session with. This is from a 1988 interview:
"What is your prediction as to Willie Brown's longevity as speaker?
"Molina: I don't think he's destined to remain much longer as speaker. I may have been one of the first to say the emperor wears no
Now, in 1990, halfway through the year, it would not seem that his power has totally eroded.
Molina
That's for sure. [Laughter]
Vasquez
It would seem that he has something of a longevity before him as speaker or at least in the political circles of California. What does that tell you? What does that tell us about either the political process, the man's talent, or your political judgment? [Laughter]
Molina
Well, first of all, obviously, my political judgment is really offbase there. Number one, because that was so erroneous as far as the conclusion, although when and how that will happen, it will happen.
Vasquez
This was about the time of the "gang of five."
Molina
Yes, "gang of five" problem. What it does say is this man is an absolutely brilliant man, which is
[Session 6, August 16, 1990]
Councilwoman Molina, last time we were talking about your decision to run for the city council and something about the race for the city council. Is there anything more you would like to elaborate on on the campaign and the race? You attributed—as did others—the significant victory over Larry González to a pinpoint, accurate campaign strategy that you and Pat Bond, I believe, worked out. Can you talk a little bit more about that campaign?
Molina
Sure. What's interesting is that. . . . What's always fascinating about campaigns is that there really. . . . It's a lot of technical work. It's a lot of strategy that has to be involved. We had a very short period of time, and we had to put together how we're going to get to the voter that was going to go out on a special election when nothing else was going on. How we were
Vasquez
Who did you target for that?
Molina
We targeted the sure voter, the elderly (the senior citizen population that proved to be a good voter) and homeowners in the area. We sent
Then after that, it was the same kind of thing. "How do we find those sure voters? How do we keep those voters on our side? How do we make sure that on election day, this is going to be important enough for them to go and vote?" Because, like I said, there was nothing else going on to remind them that it was election day. Other than our mail and things that were going on, it wasn't like there was a big hype on the news or anything else everybody knew, knowing that it was an election day. So that's what we did.
Vasquez
But it was an interesting election, because there was acrimony between yourself and supporters of
Molina
Well, what made it interesting is the press kept, you know, talking about it. Of these two Latinos running against each other. They kept doing. . . . Whether it was Richard Alatorre, who I was really running against, or whether it was Larry González. They kept fanning the fire, in a sense. And we did a lot of that kind of thing.
Of course, it was a money situation as well, which has always been a troubling part of politics for me. It was a short campaign in which you needed so much money in order to get it done. Very frankly, probably one of my weaknesses has been. . . . Not that I can't raise money, because I can. But the quick money. . . . I mean, they're. . . . My opposition has always been better to get the quick money. And that is business money. In this instance, developer money and all of that. I mean, I have to get ten people to give me, you know, a $50 check, which is a lot more work than having one developer write you a $500 or a $1,000 check. They've been very good at it. So the money thing . . .
And yet you raised more money than Larry González?
Molina
That's right. In smaller increments. That's what I'm saying. I'm good at it, because I work it very hard. But it is a tough, tough thing for me to do. It's easier for them to do. For example, we did everything. Larry González hired people to work; I had volunteers. He hired phoners; I had volunteers. So we had our dollars or our money stretching a lot more, even though he had more money coming in. It was interesting. I was able to keep up competitively financially with him. That was also true in 1982 and also in '87. As I look forward to other races, I have to. . . . That's a strength that we have. And we worked hard at making sure that that all works.
But I think the most significant part of the '87 campaign is the way we had to plot every part of it. How we were going to focus on the issues, what the issues were going to be, how we weren't going to let them take anything away from us from the standpoint of issues, and how we were going to communicate. And it was tough, because if I would have only had Larry González to look at as
Vasquez
In what sense?
Molina
Richard's a tough opponent. I mean, you know, Richard can be. . . . I mean, it's all politics, so I guess it's all fair. But, for example, certain things. . . . Like I had gotten an endorsement from. . . . I couldn't get any of the police organizations to endorse me. I never can. Richard had threatened them. [Laughter] "Touch her, and. . . ." And they were very blunt about it.
Vasquez
Threatened them with what?
Molina
With whatever. He, you know. . . . The police protective league was absolutely intimidated out of talking to me. Very frankly, they finally told me that, "Hey, Richard's a councilman, and you're not."
Vasquez
And he was chairman of the . . .
Molina
"He's told us to stay out of it, and we're out of it. Don't bother sending anymore. You're not going to get this endorsement." So I was able to get this other endorsement of law enforcement, which was a statewide organization, and I
Vasquez
What was the issue that most determined the outcome of the election, do you think?
Molina
One of the most important was certainly the leadership role that I played in the prison. That was significant to this community and to the district, but only because of my involvement already with many of them in that regard. But I also think that one of the things that we were trying to very clearly state—or the message that we were trying to deliver—was the issue of leadership. And our mail was on that. Our message was based on, "How do we communicate to these voters that they're going to have. . . . That there are differences here? That you don't have leadership on one hand, and you really have leadership on another?" I know that sounds self-serving, but that's a campaign. That's what we needed to communicate. We needed to point that out. And we talked about . . .
Vasquez
[The difference] between an assemblywoman and a member of the board of education?
Molina
Yes. And, well. . . . Or a record.
Vasquez
A record. I see.
A record. I mean, I talked about the leadership role that I played on the prison issue. The leadership role, for example, in malathion, when Boyle Heights was being sprayed and what happened. The leadership issue on crime and the things that we had done in that regard. And, certainly, the independence of that leadership. So those were what we were telling voters. We also know that it was an appealing message, because I knew the community and I knew what people were looking for. It wasn't as though. . . . It wasn't like we were making up things. That was the real me. But we did have to, every so often, point out that as compared to my opponent, that independent leadership is not there. And so . . .
Vasquez
So he got painted with the Alatorre brush? What assets were you able to bring into that campaign from your years of experience and your connections in the assembly?
Molina
Well, I was able to. . . . Certainly, the relationship with a lot of the assembly members. That I was able to use endorsements as such. But for the most part, it was basically assisting me in fund-raising or things of that
Vasquez
What was the reception that you got? Well, let me preface that by saying when Councilman Alatorre was elected, there was what some people called almost a coronation reception and activity. What was the reception that you got, being the first Latina to get on the council? Was there as much attention to you in the press and that sort of thing? What was the reception you got from the other members?
Oh, I think that I got. . . . In fact, I thought it was sort of overstaged, if you ask me. I got a wonderful reception when I got here. I think that we sort of. . . . What we were looking at in our campaign. . . . We felt that we had a very good chance of overcoming Larry González in the primary. That is, we would not be in a runoff. But a lot of it would be how well we were able to implement each aspect of that strategy. So when we won, I think what happened besides, you know, being the first Latina, I think there was that element that was important to a lot of people. But I think to political observers here in city hall and to the council members and to the bureaucrats and everything, that was very surprising to them. So I think they were in awe of how effective we were in winning in the primary, because everyone who had political wisdom had said, "This is a runoff." So we had that kind of reception, with people just being very impressed with the campaign we put together and all of that. I had an awful lot of good relationships on the council to begin with.
Vasquez
With whom?
With people. Joy Picus is someone who had been a friend and a supporter for many years as well as [Councilwoman] Pat Russell. I had had, in an indirect sense, sort of support from [Councilman] [Gilbert] Gil Lindsay from before, but [Councilman] Mike Woo had endorsed me, [Councilman] Zev Yaroslavsky had endorsed me, and [Councilman] Marvin Braude had endorsed me. [Councilman Ernani] Bernardi did not endorse me, but was very supportive in his own way. So I already had good ties into many of the council members. [Councilman] John Ferraro did not endorse me, but he is someone who endorsed me in 1982. So we had, really, kind of a good relationship, in a sense.
Vasquez
Councilman Joel Wachs was ecstatic when you got elected. Why was that?
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
His statement to the press was that this would stop a lot of power plays that he saw were being [played] in the council since Alatorre had gotten on there. <
14. Clayton, Janet. Molina Victory May Give Council More of Tilt Toward Slow-growth. Los Angeles Times (February 5, 1987): II, 1 .
Well, you have to keep it in the context of what he was angry about at that time.
Vasquez
Tell me about that.
Molina
He was angry that Richard Alatorre had gotten on council to control the reapportionment plan and . . .
Vasquez
Created a Latino district?
Molina
Well, by a fuerzitas [with a little bit of force].
Vasquez
Yes, but a Latino district?
Molina
Right. And that had to be created. The fallout of that was going to be Joel Wachs just getting to be really axed out of where he was and being placed somewhere else. That really made him angry, forcing him into a kind of runoff situation. So he was very angry by Richard and by Richard's style. That, I guess, has cooled somewhat now. I mean, it's not the same situation at all. But he. . . . And it was very clear. I mean, Richard. . . . A lot of council members knew that it wasn't. . . . If it was really Larry González, the independent candidate out there. . . . A lot of people saw the connection from Richard Alatorre to Larry, and
Vasquez
Did you see this as a mandate to come onto the council and oppose Richard on most things?
Molina
On what?
Vasquez
On any number of things?
Molina
You know, it's interesting again. It goes back to this whole thing. Richard and I will continue to always battle when it comes to campaigns, but we don't battle as far as issues. For the most part, our issues have been in sync and they continue to be. More recently, of course, we. . . . I've always had a problem with Richard's style as he legislates. We have very different styles as we legislate.
Vasquez
Flesh those out for me, will you?
Molina
Well . . .
Vasquez
In a concise . . .
Molina
In a concise way. Richard operates behind the scenes, and he knows what the outcome is going to be on certain issues even before they're presented in the public setting. He's not going to upset that outcome since he knows what it's going to be, and he's not going to challenge
I know that when I was in the state legislature and had tremendous problems with liquor stores and bars in Boyle Heights, and I had had it. I went in there, and I said, "From now on, you know, three strikes and you're out. You get three violations in a bar, then we close you up. You get three violations in a liquor store, then it's. . . ." You know, in one year. . . . They don't do that now. And I said, "Three violations in one year, I think, is pretty bad." So I introduced legislation toward that.
1. A.B. 2980, 1983-1984 Reg. Session.
Vasquez
Does this come from your background as an activist and advocate? This approach of
Molina
It must be, because I really have a big problem . . . . I don't mind compromises and negotiations, but I don't like skirting the issues. They were very real. Some people—because they feel that whatever the outcome is going to be—would rather suppress those kinds of problems or issues, because that way nobody. . . . You know, everybody's happy and we can meet each other's needs even though we're not really addressing the very real problem. I have a tendency to be much more aggressive and say, "You've got to." Besides. . . . I guess it comes from my activism. I think "bottom line." I'm not sure where it comes from, but it's something that I'm very adamant about. And that happens here in council as well. I don't mind negotiating things, but don't try and take away from what these issues are really about. I think it's a mistake to do that, and in politics it's done every single day, and it's troubling for me. It's really troubling for me. I look at what's
Vasquez
Which is that?
Molina
I'm having gang warfare problems in my district, and I am just at my wit's end as to what I'm going to do about it. I mean, kids are dying in the streets on weekends. These gangs are retaliating against each other. So I talked to a couple of people, and they say, "You know, Gloria, let the police deal with it." I said, "No, no, no. I've got to stand up. We've got to take some leadership here. This is intolerable." I don't know what to do. It's not like I know exactly. . . . I don't know what to do, but I want to know what to do. I've got to do something, and everybody is saying, "It's a loser issue, because there is nothing you can do." And I'm sitting there saying, "I don't believe that. I've got to find something." But it's interesting just how many people will just tell you politically what is expedient and what is not, and to step back from it. I have a tendency. . . . I would rather, you know, work at
Vasquez
Do you get as much accomplished by being a vociferous advocate?
Molina
In the state legislature, I did not. At least not in the state body. In my district I did.
Vasquez
And on the council?
Molina
On the council I do, because it's a smaller body and I have more direct involvement in implementation. And I have been much more successful at getting things done here and confronted and addressed and dealt with, because you can really operate within your own district. I will. I mean, I have been able to overcome a lot of things that people told me
Vasquez
Examples?
Molina
For example, the parks. I was disgusted when I first came here and saw the state of our parks in our community. They were dreadful. And the use is huge.
Vasquez
Yes.
Molina
I mean, Lincoln Park is packed with families every Saturday and Sunday, and yet it's filthy and there's nothing there. There are no amenities. The bathrooms were filthy. Everything was bad. And I'm saying, "Why?" When I started talking about Lincoln Park—and I talked to other council members—everybody was saying, "Oh, it's tough, you know. You can't do this, and you can't do that. Here's how it hasn't happened." We have been able to turn that around, I mean, inside out. There's no doubt that the director of Rec and Parks hates me, and even the commissioners are annoyed with me. But I have confronted. . . . I took in. . . . I threw dirty parks right in their face, and I said, "You can't tolerate this." I made them walk through McArthur Park, and I said, "This is intolerable."
Vasquez
What was the problem?
Molina
The problem was a disinterest as far as I was concerned. A disinterest, like, "Nobody had complained about it before. Why were you complaining?" People accepted things. "Well, they get used an awful lot. That's why there's no lawn." [Laughter] "There will be a lawn. We need an irrigation system. We need trees in this park. We need. . . ." I mean, we needed it to be pleasant. What's wrong with little flowers? If you look at a lot of our parks now, they have gone out and have replanted. We upped the security system. I did more of a focus. They designed special programs. You have to confront it, and you have to. . . . And people don't like it. They don't like being walked through
In the state legislature, it was impossible, because the process there is so very different and you're not involved in implementation. I mean, I wanted to bring the governor and Senator [Robert B.] Presley down to East L.A. I invited them over and over again. I said, "I just want you to walk from the prison site to my community. That's all I want. I just want you to see how close it is and what it means. I think that if you walk it, you'll understand what we're complaining about." Of course, they always refuse. You couldn't do that, you know. So here, as a council person, I can sort of make it happen. They don't like it. So I can get a lot more done here, and that's one of the wonderful things about being here. Everything is so much more tangible. Now, I don't know that I can do any great thing with the gang warfare, but later on today, I'm meeting with both captains of the police department. We're going to sit down, and
Vasquez
Getting back to the prison issue, how did you feel about the federal metropolitan facility that was put into this area not too long ago?
Molina
[Laughter]
Vasquez
Did you have any exchanges, since it's a federal facility, with Congressman Roybal?
Molina
When I found out about it, it was . . .
Vasquez
It has happened very quietly.
Molina
That's right. Very quietly. When I found out about it, it was, in fact, a done deal. When I talked to the congressman about it, he felt that he had extracted all kinds of various concessions in trade for that federal facility. In trying not to be disrespectful of his role and his responsibility, I left it alone. But I always . . . . I pointed to it. "Look, they're also building another federal facility here." But I was concerned. . . . Like I said, by the time that we stepped in in an active way in '85, it was already done. Legislation had passed. The congressman had felt very good about the Veterans
Vasquez
Another issue that you've been identified with has to do with slow growth versus development. Some people argue, "Well, that's fine for areas of the city that have all kinds of development, but it's probably self-destructive and self-defeating in an area that needs a certain amount of development." How do you respond to that?
Molina
Well, exactly that. You do need. . . . I consider myself a planned growth advocate. In other words, I don't think that we should just have growth going on without any checks and balances in the process. But I do believe that there are some parts of my district that absolutely need commercial growth, or growth, and there are certain areas that should have none. We should limit it. I have a part of my district now in the city council that's called Central City West, which is all of those barren acres over there across from the Harbor Freeway,
We put a plan in to create a planned growth community there, because the trade-off was that if we could get housing for a lot of those people that are in poor substandard housing, we could trade off the commercial development and all of that. We've created a whole package now where not only do they get housing, they get amenities like parks. They're also part of building a school. We're also going to create an employment program, so that many of these young people will get under their apprenticeship programs. So we're doing a whole trade thing. How does it . . ? How can we have development really help a community? In other areas when I look at my district, like Highland Park—I don't know if you know it—it's more of a. . . . I guess it's a bedroom community. It's more single-family housing, and the commercial is just basically there to serve the residential. But there is a lot of interest in going in there because of the
That's all the words that developers hate. They don't like that kind of thing. They're there. They've got their money, they've got their financing, and they've got their piece of land. They're going to build their tower. They aren't responsible for those other kinds of things. That's what we are. Those aren't exactly the kinds of words they like to hear from me. They really believe in unrestricted growth and the whole capitalism, free enterprise kind of thing, and it will all take care of itself somehow in the process. But it doesn't. So that's how I operate at least here on the council on those issues.
Vasquez
On that issue as in other issues, you've also often taken a stand that you call a citywide issue that interests you and affects you, which has been seen as an interest in becoming mayor of
Molina
Yes. There is like an unwritten role, although it's played out all the time. That is, you just don't mess in other council members' districts, and you let council members do what they want to do in their own district. I would say that about 90 percent of the council members adhere to that rule. They find it very offensive for anyone to disrupt that kind of situation. I am probably one of the biggest violators of that rule, and I think that many council members don't appreciate it. There are certain issues that, to me, I just have to do. One of them is housing. So I have interfered, in a sense, in plans that Gil Lindsay had on housing issues that I was able to turn around. It made him very angry, but I just think it was. . . . I couldn't let the council do that. I had to raise it, and I was eventually successful because I couldn't get Councilman Lindsay to really address the issue to the extent that I wanted. I've approached issues with other council members, which I've lost—Joan Flores,
Vasquez
In the assembly, there are affinity groups or alliances that one creates or can count on. Is there such a thing on the city council like the one here in Los Angeles?
Molina
You mean on issues or as a personality?
Both. Probably more around issues, but also personalities.
Molina
Probably amongst the other fourteen on this. . . . [Laughter] Certainly on issues. Certainly issues. If, in fact, you've got an issue that you're trying to preserve a certain environmental issue, there's going to be some natural allies that are going to be there. You know, a Marvin Braude and probably a Ruth Galanter. Or if you're against a big developer, there are certain people that will stick by you. Others, you know, may not. That's usually on a citywide issue that we address every so often. But I can count on certain people on certain issues. But I try not to do it that way.
Vasquez
There are no permanent alliances?
Molina
Right. I don't expect anybody to do it with me. So I don't expect it of them. I mean, I'm a good friend of Joy Picus, but I can't sit there and say, "Joy, you know, I want you to turn your back on how you feel about this and vote with me on it." I would hate for her to do that to me. Now, if it's an issue that's totally insignificant to her and I would really need a
Vasquez
Is there as much horse-trading on the council as there is reputedly on the assembly?
Molina
Oh, yes, there is. Oh, absolutely. Of course there is. You know. . . . All of us have major projects that involve various controversies. So, consequently, it sort of like, "I won't say anything if you won't say anything about this." Oh, that goes on all the time. All the time.
Vasquez
Have you violated some of that?
Molina
No, I'm honest about it. Well, how do I say honest? I confront it, okay, because. . . . For example, there was a project going on. [Councilman] Hal Bernson says, "This is my project. Here's what I want. Here's how I'm going to do it." I said, "Oh, God. I have problems with this project." So I went to him, and I told him. And his attitude was, "Don't mess with me." "And I just got to tell you. I cannot support this the way it's written out right now. I'm going to have to address this issue, and I know it's going to make you angry.
Vasquez
What was the outcome of that?
Molina
Well, what happened was—I guess, with plenty of warning—he just didn't want it raised. So he was able to address it, and that was the issue of low-income housing that he was doing in Porter Ranch. But it's. . . . I try and. . . . It's not like I'm out there to say, "This is just my style. I'm going to vote against you on a regular basis." I just have to go over there and say, "I just can't agree with this project, and just vote with me. I just find that. . . . It's not that. . . . I'm not trying to attack you. I'm not trying to personally get after you. It's just the issue." But they, many times, will say, "Oh, no. It's Molina, and Molina. . . ." [It] will get back to me every so often.
Vasquez
When you came on the council. . . . Since you've been on the council, you've been identified. . . . In fact, in many interviews you've admitted as much, that you were very much interested in becoming the first Latina mayor of the city Los Angeles. But, recently, with the opening up of
Molina
Well, let me tell you, I would love. . . . One of the things that I've enjoyed. . . . I've enjoyed the city council, because it is so tangible. I mean, you can really do things. I look at a lot of the citywide issues, and I get frustrated as to why we can't do more. Basically, I'm not in charge. I mean, all I can do is present. I can do a lot in my district, and I value that, but I'd love to be able to do more. I'm able to push certain things on a city level. I've introduced the words "housing" and "low-income housing" to this city, which they had not used before. And I'm doing a lot with it. I mean, we're going to get linkage. We're going to do a lot of things that had not been done before. I guess if I were in charge, then I could really set the agenda, which I'm sure each of us in our own arrogance as council members would like to do for this city. So I'm very interested in having an opportunity
One of my realities—also that I know—is that. . . . The money that it would take is something that I don't know is within my reach. The way I operate politically and the way I deal with issues, it seems like every decision I make starts eroding my financial capability to raise money.
Vasquez
For mayor?
Molina
Yes. Because, you know, it's. . . . They're important decisions to me, and I'm not going to
Vasquez
If not more.
Molina
Yes. If not . . .
We were talking about your decision, or your consideration, of running for supervisor in what
Molina
Well, of course, there's that possibility, where if, in fact, five of us got in there—and five elected officials are Democrats—we would dilute our strength, and it's a very strong possibility that someone like Sarah might be able to win. Or someone else if Schabarum ran again. He might be able to win. But I don't think that's going to happen this time.
Vasquez
What have you done, or is anything being done, that you can talk about to circumvent that possibility?
Well, I can't say that there's anything organizationally being done. There are just discussions that there should be some kind of a forum—that there should be a body established—to select who should do it. But there isn't anything formally being done. Instead, I can only tell you about what I've done. For me, I felt that I needed to talk to all of the candidates that were running and evaluate my situation or my decision to run based on what they were going to be doing, and so on. So I decided to start setting up meetings very quickly with every single one of those candidates. I guess, first of all, with Congressman Roybal, in talking to him. . . . He has expressed his interest in running for the seat. I very quickly determined in my dialogue with him that I certainly would not run if he ran.
Vasquez
Why is that?
Molina
Well, it's. . . . A sense of. . . . First of all, I think he has the capability of winning because of. . . . He's sort of the top person, the most respected and senior leader of Chicano elected officials. That he would have the capability of
Vasquez
You're talking about his race against Ernest [E.] Debs when, the following day, 12,000 or so absentee ballots were found.
Molina
That's right. There was a declaration of victory. He had won this race, but all of a sudden, they found all of these absentee ballots, which were all for Supervisor Debs. And he lost the seat. Most of us look at that as having been denied that seat that he had rightfully won. So, very frankly, I think it would be very fitting for him to now, after this long struggle of getting a seat designed, he would have the capability of winning or the opportunity of winning. That he might want to come back to
Vasquez
But recently, you were talking about the importance of this race for the community. This is about a community's interest, not about an individual's belated payoff for political efforts, isn't it?
Molina
Well, there's no doubt about it, but I think that's all in sync as well. You know, we're not talking about somebody who deserved it then and doesn't deserve it now. In other words, that he has represented people in Congress very, very well—their interest and exactly their desires in him as a congressman on the issues that are important to this community. He has taken strong positions, and he's been very adamant about it all.
Vasquez
Will he be the best candidate out of all of you? Will he make the best supervisor of all of the . . ?
Molina
It's hard to tell. I think all of us think that we have special attributes that we can bring to this particular position. But I think the
Vasquez
There are other people that have, at least in the press, expressed interest. People like Congressman Estebán Torres and . . .
Molina
Yes. I met with all of them. I met with Estebán
Vasquez
Tell me about those.
Molina
Well, in Estebán's style and dialogue. . . . Our discussions really centered around what we wanted and how we would approach and what our interests would be in serving on this seat. What we both concluded, very frankly, is we probably would not run against each other. We didn't . . .
Vasquez
Was this a firm commitment not to run against one another?
Molina
From a standpoint of a commitment to each other, we both decided that we would dialogue with one another before we made our final decision and that we would more than likely not run against each other. That it just didn't seem like a good idea. That we felt that if each other ran, we could represent each other's interest and hopes for that particular position. So I feel sort of confident with that. Again, it's not an absolute commitment, "I won't run if you run" kind of a thing, but it's a commitment of saying, "I would really rather not run against you, and I'd like the opportunity to talk to you." Not that I wouldn't want to convince him that I would want
Vasquez
Is it because you have a greater political affinity with him, perhaps, than you might with some of the others that we're going to discuss?
Molina
Well, the thing is that it's based on, "This is very significant. This really represents a lot for us as an opportunity." So, consequently, it has to be an opportunity that we're going to win. I mean, we have to make sure that we're going to get behind somebody that's going to win it. We don't want to just let our egos get so caught up in this thing that we really lose the war on it.
Estebán presents the kind of candidacy that, I think, a lot of people could get behind. He could. . . . And because he represents a good deal of that area now, he would have the capability of
Vasquez
Who else have you met with?
Molina
I met with Sarah Flores. I met with Sarah Flores. Certainly, none of the meetings had been to discourage the other from running. But I felt that I needed to meet with Sarah Flores, because she's definitely going to be a candidate no matter what. I mean, this is no one you negotiate with. This is somebody that hopefully you just say, "I'm expecting to be a candidate as well. I know it's important to you, and it's important to me. Hopefully, we're going to have a campaign, and we're going to run out there and discuss the issues," and so on. But, instead, it became the kind of discussion that, I guess, I should have known, but I didn't expect. Because I was sort of hoping that Sarah's candidacy and Sarah as a candidate would be respectful of this
Vasquez
By the courts?
Molina
Yes. That she was the people's favorite. That she had broken that myth about the fact that a Latina or a Latino couldn't win that district. That she felt her own victory was an example of that.
Vasquez
To what do you attribute her victory?
Molina
To having $400,000 that has been donated mostly by [Los Angeles County Supervisor] Deane Dana and [Los Angeles County Supervisor Mike] Antonovich contributors. At least 65 percent of it as I've seen. She had the most money, and I think she had a lot of sympathy with her. I mean, she, you know. . . . The incumbent did not treat her well. She had served him all those years . . .
Vasquez
Pete Schabarum.
Molina
Then he just turned around and told her things like she was undereducated, that she didn't have the capability or the people skills to be elected
But I was very disappointed, because she stepped in and she was—not hostile—but she felt very angered by the fact that there's a judge trying to deny her this opportunity to run for . . .
Vasquez
Did she ask you not to run?
Molina
No. We never had that kind of a dialogue. We discussed mostly the redistricting effort. And, like I said, I said. . . . Now that we were going to be running in this new district, I thought it was a good idea that she had an opportunity to run. I felt that the judge had done a good job at trying to find a way to compromise it all. And that, you know. . . . I was hoping, basically, to wish her a lot of luck and so on.
Anyway, so she's going to be a candidate. But I. . . . She's not anyone to sneeze at either. I mean, she has all the capability of mounting a very, very strong campaign. As I look at it as another woman, I have to size up myself as to whether I have the capability of really waging an effective campaign against her and what she represents.
Vasquez
Because she is a woman—a female candidate—would she cut into your women's movement and women's group support that you need to count on?
Molina
Not from the standpoint of women activists, women feminists, women money. I think I would be able to get 90 or 95 percent of all of that. I think that she would be able to cut into certain voters that probably I would have normally gotten, having in the past always been the only woman that was running in those seats. So I think she'll make a dent in that. There's no doubt about it. But I do think that I have to work
Vasquez
Have you met with any other potential candidates?
Molina
Yes. I first met with Richard Alatorre.
Vasquez
Tell me about that.
Molina
Well, Richard, when we had a discussion, came in and said that he really wanted to run for this seat. That was very important to him, and he was hoping that I might, instead, want to focus for the mayor's race, and felt that I probably had a real opportunity to run for the mayor's seat, and he may not. So, consequently, that would be a good place for me to be. I told him that I really felt that the mayor's race was no doubt something that I would love to have, and I would love to have an opportunity to run for it. I just didn't think it was a very tangible kind of thing at this point in time, it was too far away, there would be so much money that would need to be involved, and that I needed to continue to have the kind of freedom that I've always felt about a lot of issues. The fact that now I would be making decisions based on my possibility on running citywide, that that was troublesome for
Vasquez
What would be his deficits or his liabilities against Sarah Flores?
Molina
Well, his liabilities, of course, would be his very own history, his very own style, his very own—you know—political traditions as he sees them. I think that would all. . . . I mean, they all play fine behind the scenes, but they don't play well, you know, before the press, or the camera, or before voters. I think if you look at
Vasquez
Or in the present climate?
Molina
That's right, or the present climate. When you look back at the problems that he had with the campaign finance laws. Getting the biggest penalty assessed against him is probably something that would be used. The fact that he's having trouble in his own district, people wanting to recall him, and things like that. Then, of course, the whole Eastside kind of situation.
Vasquez
Tell me about that.
Molina
Well, I think that what we're looking at is a district of a lot of cities that are. . . . I'm sure they don't enjoy being called the "Greater Eastside," but it's the San Gabriel Valley and a lot of that area. Very frankly, I think that because they've been left out politically for a long, long time, they don't like that East L.A. mentality of politics. They really don't. I think they would find it resentful, and they certainly would find it resentful that anybody would want to come in and sort of bring stale East L.A. politics into, you know, their area.
Is there anything to the notion that a lot of areas out there—El Monte and La Puente—were places that people run away from East L.A. to?
Molina
Well, yes. They got the opportunity, because of some of the struggles in East L.A. to get away from. . . . I mean, those struggles. . . . Talked about getting an education, about getting more jobs, about doing those kinds of things. I think that created that opportunity to buy your house in La Puente. That created the opportunity to buy the house in Pico Rivera. So you're talking about a whole different group of people. Not that they don't have ties into East L.A. and they may not appreciate what's in East L.A., but if you're talking about a different set of priorities. . . . It isn't something that. . . . I don't know if they want to distance themselves from it, but they think themselves different. Not that they don't appreciate it, but they do consider themselves different. They're caught up in different needs. In East L.A. the struggle may be different than it is out there. Out there they're concerned about issues like taxes. It's a very important one to them. Somebody who is
Vasquez
So to what end did your meeting with Alatorre come?
Molina
Well, unfortunately—or fortunately—I certainly wasn't trying to say, "It's either me or you." He feels that he's going to run no matter what. He has made that decision, and he's moving forward on it. He's going to raise all the money he needs, and he's going to go out there and do it. He does not see any liability whatsoever. He thinks he can win it, and he wants to go out there and do it. But he's not going to submit to any kind of process. I mean, you could tell. He's very adamant about running. So that was a situation with him. In my discussion with Marty Martínez—we just had a telephone conversation—and, basically, he had the same feeling. That if
Vasquez
Are there any other potential candidates that you see out there?
Molina
No. I'm sure there will be other candidates.
Vasquez
On the Democratic side?
Molina
Even on the Democratic side. I mean, there may be another council member or another mayor from the cities out there. There are other Latinos that are elected. There are school board members. I just had not heard a lot of dialogue about other people running.
Vasquez
There was another candidacy that didn't do so well in the last race that may be resuscitated, and that's Nell Soto's. She's a city councilwoman in Pomona. How do you assess her
Molina
Well, I think that Nell. . . . You know, Nell has been around a long, long time. Nell in that race or in this race. . . . It's hard to tell. In that race, she was just. . . . She was the kind of candidate that could never win in that other district. She's a Democrat, she's Latina, she's just not. . . . I mean, it just wasn't there. The numbers weren't there. In this race here, I don't know that she would necessarily have the capability of mounting a very credible campaign. The reason I say that is the money end of it. That's a tough one. Now, there's no doubt that I know that money is going to be tough. But I do know that I can raise competitive money. I don't know that necessarily Nell can. She has done well in getting elected to local office, and she has certainly been involved in. . . . She's probably instrumental in getting her husband elected many years ago, but we're talking about the money thing. I think that Nell would probably come up short on the fund-raising end. I don't know that she would necessarily come up short in endorsements or
Vasquez
Tell me the difference that you see money plays, whether it's held in November or December or next spring. What's the soonest it can be held? In November?
Molina
If it's held in November, it plays right into the money issue. Whoever has the most money—who uses it the most effectively—probably has the best chance. It's the way it plays out. It plays into the money, because it's a general election. It is going to be how you're going to be able to get your message out to as many voters as possible.
Vasquez
Quickly?
Yes, very quickly and efficiently. It's going to take money to get on the slates to do all those kinds of things. If it is held next year—let's say in the first quarter or the first part of next year—it has a different opportunity, because then it plays into having the most effective political strategy. That doesn't necessarily mean having the most money. You have to have money. I'm not going to say that money is not important. But if you could build a good portfolio of who the voters are—because, again, it plays into that whole special thing—30 percent of them are going to turn out. When you're talking about 350,000, that's a very small number. Then you're going to figure out how you're going to get your message to those people, who they are, how you're going to get there. And it can play into other kinds of strengths. Grass roots strengths, endorsement strengths, other kinds of things that don't necessarily work in this November election. So there are different campaigns. More than likely, probably next year, we'll play it stronger. We'll play it more effectively for me, because it plays to my strong
Vasquez
Is Art Torres a player in any of this? Is he a possibility?
Molina
I have not heard from him with regard to this seat at all. He has not expressed any interest whatsoever. My last discussion with him is that he was interested in running for mayor, and then he had his own personal complications. I haven't heard any more on that. But he does not seem or has not [announced] himself up as a player in this issue, or even someone who is going to get involved.
Vasquez
How about [Assemblywoman] Lucille Roybal-Allard?
Molina
Lucille is, of course. . . . Her interest is that her father, if he runs, of course, she is going to be there 150 percent. But if not, I'm hoping to get her support and her endorsement. She represents a good part of the district which I used to represent. So her endorsement would be important. I would hope that I would be able to
Vasquez
Well, in 1987, Frank del Olmo of the Los Angeles Times wrote a column the day after your victory party celebrating your election to the city council, which is called "Two Eastside Machines? Let's Hope Not," <
16. Frank del Olmo, Two Eastside Machines? Let's Hope Not, Los Angeles Times (February 6, 1987): II, 5 .
Molina
No.
Vasquez
Or is there a political machine on the other side?
Molina
There isn't anymore. I think there used to be, and I think there was a tremendous interest in continuing to fuel that. But I think that after 1987, that sort of broke it down quite a bit. I think that Richard's style played against him and the machine politics played against him. I think
Vasquez
Is this what groups like the Mothers of East L.A. had become?
Molina
The Mothers of East L.A., a lot of the businesspeople that joined with me, a lot of the community leadership that were part of what I was
Vasquez
What do you understand by a political machine?
Molina
Well as. . . . Traditionally, the East L.A.
Vasquez
How do they bully?
Molina
How do they bully? They bully other people out of the races. They bully people by making sure that money doesn't go there. They bully so that certain endorsements don't get there. Everything that it takes to be a candidate—to develop the campaign, to develop the credibility of a campaign—they go out and bully away. They don't go out and say, "Here are the merits of him versus her." They go out and they bully it. They steamroll it, and that's a machine. They don't. . . . There's no room for negotiation, discussion, or anything. They're very adamant. That's different.
We wanted to keep a coalition together so that there would be dialogues, there would be input, so that we could introduce new
Vasquez
Name some of the people who were part of this group that were around you.
Molina
That were around me?
Vasquez
Uh-huh. [Affirmative] That were part of your coalition, if you will.
Molina
Okay. Well, for example, as far as elected officials, our coalition existed: myself, Congressman Roybal, and Lucille Roybal-Allard, and now—more recently—hopefully, [Assemblyman] Xavier Becerra will be part of that kind of a coalition. But it also includes people like Mike Hernández, who was a candidate for the assembly; Ed Avila; Henry Lozano; Evelyn Martínez—a whole bunch of people that get together. I don't know
Vasquez
How is that different from a political machine?
Molina
Well, I think what's different about it is it's open-ended. It isn't absolute. We don't. . . . For example, one person [Elizabeth Díaz] that came to us and wanted us to support her for the school district. . . . What we did is we said, "This is what you need to do. This is the kind of campaign, and here is and so on." We, you know, got people
Vasquez
Who was this candidate?
Molina
Liz Díaz. She ran for the Garvey School District, lost the first time, and just won the second time around. She is, in a sense, part of that same group now. But we didn't go in there and do this thing in the area, you know, "Congressman Roybal, Gloria Molina, Lucille Roybal-Allard say. . . ." What we did is we tried to give her all the support, the financial
But we're very different from the old style of what Richard and what those guys used to do. Theirs was a very absolute kind of bully tactic. I know I came up against it on a regular basis. There were others, others that were bullied out.
Vasquez
You seem to indicate that it "was," saying that has changed. Is it because it has declined? Has it become weaker? Or does that represent political maturity?
Molina
Well, I have to believe—or I want to believe—that it represents political maturity. I think they've recognized that that's not a style that complements what's going on today, what people want, what they want to see. That maybe at that time, when they began that kind of a process, they really needed to have that kind of a unity, that kind of brutal force in order to overcome
Vasquez
Do you think the political system has opened up more for Latinos? That kind of machine is not needed any longer?
Molina
Well, I would want to wish that that's the case, but I don't know that that is necessarily the case. I think that what has happened is now Chicano politics isn't controlled by one small segment. That is, they don't hold all the financial resources. They don't hold all the endorsement resources. They don't hold all the technical resources. I think that those resources now are shared more. It's much broader who gets to be a part of it. So that not necessarily do you have to be sanctioned by this small group in order to go forward. Now there
Vasquez
Now, in your career, you've been a first in many areas as a Latina politican who has had to break ground in many senses. What have you learned . . ? Well, before I ask you what you've learned about the political system, how much do you think the timing of your candidacy—of your political career—was helped by the women's movement or feminism or a greater consciousness of women's rights?
Molina
I think it was a very important part of it. [Interruption]
I gained. . . . It was a. . . . It was a significant part of my campaign. It was a very important part of it. The women's movement was at a height at the time I ran the first time in 1982
Traditionally, it's always been somebody else's game. But what I have found getting involved in in the political process is that it's very much our game, except we have been led to believe we are to be excluded. Unfortunately, we've bought into it. I remember—and again, I guess I've
Vasquez
To effectively. . . . To be effective, what have you learned works? To be effective in making changes that you wanted to make, what is it that you found works?
Molina
Well, I think like anything else, you have to have a movement behind you. I think that's the most effective way to bring about changes. I
I've done that, for example, with housing. I think I've been more effective by going out there and sort of beating the bushes and saying, "This is something that we need to work on: bringing a lot of people together; getting them to, you know, start thinking almost as a movement. We really have to get the city to
So I think it requires almost like winning a campaign. Every single significant change has to really involve a long-range strategy, and it has to be implemented all the way through. I've approached things that way. I mean, my high school dropout legislation and trying to get the city to work on housing issues. Things that are really important involve, you know, putting together a long-term strategy and continuously working it.
Vasquez
You seem to be saying that for politics—the future of politics—is for more grass—roots organizing, more accountability, more accessibility, which seems to fly in the face of
Molina
We have to. We have to. I think the biggest mistake that we make is being smug once we get here, you know, and saying, "Oh, well. I'm here, and you're not" kind of thing. That happens.
Vasquez
Incumbentitis?
Molina
Yes. I think the best thing that we can do is to go out and revitalize and reenergize the people out there and get them to hold us accountable. Why not? It's good for us, and it's good for them. That doesn't seem to happen. Politicians get here, and they want to maintain the status quo, and that's an unfortunate kind of situation. They're intimidated by anyone who wants to bring in anything different. And that's really unfortunate, because I think that, you know, if our political system is really going to grow—if we're really going to continue to have a strong democracy—you have to have a lot of people involved. It has to be an inclusive process, and it can't be run by a few as it seems to. Because I think that is going to. . . . It
So in the Chicano community, we should seize the opportunity of. . . . While other people may not find it as exciting, as interesting, aren't willing to go out there and vote, that we should go out there and say, "Here's a real opportunity to go out there and be part of that group of people that are going to hold politicians accountable and really start being really a significant part of it." There's real opportunities for it, for that involvement. I'm one of those that believes that we need to keep it open and accessible. That we need to go out there and encourage more people to participate in the process. Then, understand the consequences of that. The consequences are that the more people get involved in the process, the more effective they are at organizing and so on. Eventually, they'll come and organize you right out of office, but that might be a very, very good thing.
Vasquez
Is there anything else that you would like to say for the record in this interview?
[Laughter] Well, it's an interesting time in my life to be going through this interview. I never thought I would do it. I think that our history is an important one. I don't mean our history as just Latinos, but our political. . . . Each of us as elected officials and our political history is all very, very important. I think that most people will always want to figure out what makes us tick, how we operate, how we make decisions. I think that all of these collective interviews and this history will, hopefully, lead many of those people or give some guidance to many of these people about what made things tick as they did or how things happened at the time. So I think they're valuable.
In addition, I also think that for myself and for others like myself, I think that is going to be interesting to go back and to read this interview. To see where we were at the time and where I'm going to be, let's say, in ten years. Because we all become so very different people. I hope that I'm still going to be that kind of person that. . . . I don't know if I represented that in this interview, but I hope I will
Vasquez
Thank you very much, councilwoman, for this interview.
Courtesy of Dept of Special Collections/UCLA Library, A1713 Charles E. Young Research Library, 405 Hilgard Ave, Box 951575, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1575; http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/special/scweb/
http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb8b69p65d&brand=oac4
Title: Oral history interview with Gloria Molina
By: Molina, Gloria, Interviewee, Vásquez, Carlos, 1944-, Interviewer
Date: 1990
Contributing Institution: Dept of Special Collections/UCLA Library, A1713 Charles E. Young Research Library, 405 Hilgard Ave, Box 951575, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1575; http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/special/scweb/
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Department of Special Collections, Charles E. Young Research Library, U.C. Los Angeles