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Interview
This is an interview with Mr. Mas Uyesugi for the California State College, Fullerton, Japanese American Oral History Project, by John McFarlane at 308½ West 4th Street, Santa Ana, California, on April 16, 1971, at 6:40 p.m. Mr. Uyesugi, would you please state your name, age, and present address? Uyesugi My name is Mas Uyesugi. I am forty-six years of age. I reside at 4250, Apartment 409, Park Newport Apartments, Newport Beach, California. McFarlane Where were you born? Uyesugi I was born in Colusa in northern California. McFarlane Were your parents born in the United States? Uyesugi No, my parents were born in Japan in Kumamoto-Ken, Hotuku-Gun, Kawachi-Mura. McFarlane Would you comment on your education? Where did you go to school? Uyesugi I completed elementary school in Colusa, California. I went through my junior year in Colusa Union High School, and this was the point where we were forcibly evacuated from our home. I completed my senior year at Amache, Colorado, in the Granada War Relocation Center. Upon graduation, I spent a year at Colorado State Teacher's College in Greeley, Colorado. After three semesters there I received my induction notice. I served three years in the Army Intelligence Corps in the South Pacific area. ― 2 ―
Upon return to the States, I went through the Cleveland School of Horology, which is a school of watchmaking, and have been
in the jewelry business since then.
McFarlane Mr. Uyesugi, would you state your feelings toward the nation of Japan prior to December 7, 1941? Uyesugi Well, my feelings were rather remote. I think I was just mainly involved with living as an American. The only relationship, I guess, that I had with Japan would be that I went to an elementary Japanese language school in Colusa. This was following our regular classroom studies at the public school. We spent an hour each day, and also half a day on Saturdays, learning the Japanese language. At that time, we were exposed to Japanese movies and a brief history of Japan. Movies exaggerate and often fantasize. But other than that, it was a rather remote thing. I don't think that we were influenced or educated extensively as to our Japanese heritage. McFarlane Was this education at the Japanese elementary school at the request of your parents, or was this by your own choice? Uyesugi Usually this education was on the insistence of our parents. We went along kind of grudgingly, I guess, because it got kind of late, especially when we were going to high school, and we were going out for after-school sports. It was pretty difficult for us to go to classes after that. So I don't know how much I really got out of the classes. But I'm kind of grateful now, however, that I do have some knowledge of it. Since mother is in Cleveland, Ohio, at the present time, I can somehow correspond with her in my very limited Japanese. She really appreciates it because she knows it's very difficult for me to write Japanese. McFarlane Can you remember where you were and what you were doing when you heard the news that Pearl Harbor had been bombed? Uyesugi Yes, I—do. It remains very vivid in my mind. I loved to fish and we were out fishing in the Sacramento River. When L came home that morning I heard that Pearl Harbor had been bombed. It seemed like just a fantasy, really. Things started to happen, I think, as a result of that. I felt--I don't know whether it was just a feeling within myself or what--but I did sort of have a feeling that other people were looking at me very critically. Whether this was true or not, I think these were my inner feelings. People didn't come out and say anything directly, but I could feel it. McFarlane Did you get this feeling immediately after war was ― 3 ―
declared? Was this apparent very early?
Uyesugi No. No, I don't think so. I think it was once we started getting exposed to the news media. Of course, during the war days it was understandable because of the propaganda, the headlines in the paper, and the general attitude of the people. It seemed like they were colder and a little more remote. Also, from the standpoint that when curfews were established on us, it automatically made me feel like I was a part of something other than the mainstream of America. I think this was basically the feeling that I had. Also we started to feel it even more acutely because of the fact that Japanese Americans who lived close to military installations were ordered to move. Colusa is quite distant from the coastline; it is more or less in the interior of California. These people, moving away from the immediate coastlines and military installations, started to come to the Colusa area so that they would not have to evacuate, so the directives stated. I think these were some of the evidences of what was to follow. We talked with these new faces and felt secure that we were outside the military restricted area. McFarlane When were you first notified that perhaps you would be relocated? Uyesugi I don't think there was a real specific day that I can put my finger on, but we went through phases. I mentioned before about the curfew being established. I think, being interested in sports and things like that, I immediately felt the results of it, because of the fact that all schools substituted intramural sports programs for inter-school sports--apparently due to gas rationing. Orders came out to turn over all kinds of weapons that we might have had. We used to do a lot of hunting, mostly ducks and pheasants in that county. It's famous hunting country. I remember we had a shortwave radio, and things like that had to be turned in at the sheriff's department. Which, by the way, we never did see again after that; not even after we came back after the war. I don't know where those things went; they were spoils of the war, I guess. We didn't have any small, concealed type of weapons. So things like this that were happening, I think, kind of conditioned us to the probabilities ahead. But in my case I think I pushed it out of my mind, not knowing what was going to happen--not really knowing for sure whether we were going to be evacuated or what was going to happen. There were a lot of rumors flying around. McFarlane Was your father a landholder near Colusa? ― 4 ―
Uyesugi
No. Father passed away in 1936, and I think whatever determination and perseverance that we Uyesugis have came from Mother. Mother often stated, "Dad always was unlucky and experienced more difficult times than good." He was always a businessman with a soft heart. He had a general store and during the Depression years he extended a lot of credit to good customers to put food on their tables. This was his downfall because his creditors were not as charitable to him. He had to close the store. Later we moved to Grimes, a nearby community, for one year and there he went into farming. He didn't have much success in that undertaking either. He raised lettuce and the crop was grade A and ready for picking, but with his usual poor luck a frost came and froze and destroyed the entire crop. To make things worse, he cashed out his insurance policy to pay his help, leaving Mother with eight of us to support when he passed away in 1936. Rather than turning to relief, Mother started a restaurant business and raised us. I think she did an outstanding job. She was very spiritually-oriented. I think these are some of the things, when I reflect back, that we are very, very grateful to her for: her stout heart, and not giving in the easy way, but going out and earning our way. I think this was one of the basic reasons why I was very upset about evacuation. She was as pioneer an American as there was. You asked about whether we were landholders. Mother had the restaurant that she had built over a number of years, and we thought it was quite a well-going business. The final instructions to evacuate came out, I think, about forty-eight hours prior to the day we had to leave. She had to get rid of the business like right now. She got all of five hundred dollars for that entire business, including all the cooking equipment. She had a piano. Everything that was there went with it. She had a couple of professional billiard tables there. Certainly all the stock went with it. We had a combination boarding room upstairs with the bedding and all. All this went for five hundred dollars, because all we could take along with us was what we had on our backs and what we could carry. These are matters that rather troubled me, when we went to Merced. Mother came to the United States in 1913, and Dad before her, and now we were being herded like goats--homeless creatures. It seems unbelievable. McFarlane When the directive came out, was she directed to sell the business at that time? Uyesugi Well, she felt that we would never come back again. I don't know whether the directive said for her to dispose of the business, but I think she could see the hand-writing on the wall saying that we may never come back ― 5 ―
here again because of the confinement into concentration camps or whatever. This became a fact since mother and the family
settled in Cleveland, Ohio to begin anew. After being released from Amache, I think probably her worst fear was: what will
happen to her eight young ones? The first thing she did was to go out and buy us some new clothes at Penneys--which was close
by--to clothe us with new outfits.
McFarlane You said that you had forty-eight hours of final notice. How long were you given between the first notice and the final notice? Uyesugi I'm not sure about the first notice. Like I said, things were happening and we could sort of suspect what was going to come. But I think all of us hoped and prayed for the better and tried to push what we dreaded to the backs of our minds. We hated to think of how severe it might be. I think being in a country like ours, where freedom is a birth right, we really didn't think something like this could happen, until the final day that we had to evacuate. Getting back to my personal feelings--as we conducted high school history classes, of course, we discussed world problems. It was, "Japs this, and Japs that, and the sneaky Japs." I guess we were still identified as Japanese and not necessarily Americans of Japanese descent I don't know whether it's right, but these were some of the feelings. Americanism is a state of heart and mind, right? And it's not a matter of physical characteristics--that's a fact. It was at dawn, late in May, that we finally started to be evacuated. They loaded us on the several buses and trucks to take us over to Marysville, where we got on a train and went on to the Merced Assembly Center. Oh, it was quite a touching scene! My geometry teacher came out and offered several arithmetic textbooks to me. I guess I was doing relatively well in all my classes. She said, "Mas, make sure that you continue to study and continue all the math work." I think she didn't have the remotest idea what was going to happen to us. The fellows that I played football with, one fellow in particular, drove one of the trucks out and it was a real tearful separation. Yet, it seemed like they really could have protested severely, I think, to support our position--that we certainly were good citizens, law-abiding citizens. And yet, I think, our Caucasian friends also felt that it would be sort of a futile gesture. I think because of our respect for authority and being disciplined by our parents, we went quietly and orderly. At least, this is part of the reason. ― 6 ―
McFarlane
You said that they started at dawn, to go to Marysville as a collection point. About how many people were involved and what were the conditions at Marysville at that time? Uyesugi I don't know what the conditions were at Marysville. I mean, everything was very chaotic. You merely grabbed your luggage, whatever you had, as you were just concerned with your immediate things. Maybe a hundred and fifty or two hundred Japanese from our particular area in Colusa went to Marysville. Marysville and Yuba City, the twin cities there, must have had a greater population of Japanese Americans. McFarlane You said one of your Caucasian friends drove the truck. Were you treated well at this time? Uyesugi Oh, yes! There was no question about the relationship between our friends and ourselves. In fact, I think one of the most touching things that I really vividly remember is that . . . we stayed in the Merced Assembly Center a couple of months, I guess, until our permanent location was set up in Amache, Colorado. But I corresponded with some of the fellows that I had played sports with and a couple of the fellows hitchhiked--it must have been at least a couple of hundred miles--to see me before I left. I thought these were things that couldn't really be valued in dollars and cents--the true friendships. This has certainly continued over the years; we've gotten together on occasions. One of these fellows is in Hawaii now, and another one is in India; another is in Louisiana, and another one is a district attorney back home in Colusa. But we've kind of kept in touch. I think these are the deeper feelings. I think we all have that real closeness. These ties certainly have perpetuated all these years. I think all of us should learn from these things; that it's certainly not racial backgrounds, but each individual and what we are, that is important. McFarlane When you were quartered at the collection point in Merced, what type of quarters did you have? Uyesugi I think we got there quite late at night, and we hadn't eaten all day. We were kind of herded into a mess hall area. They tagged us, gave us a number, and took us to the barracks area. They were typical Army - type barracks. We had quite a sizable family, and we do have quite a range of children. Some were young; I was seventeen at that time, and I had an older sister. We were confined in these close quarters, I would say maybe fourteen ― 7 ―
feet by fourteen feet, or maybe a little bit larger than that. It was quarters for an entire family. Not only that, but the
partitions, which separated us from total strangers, were open at the top, so we really had no privacy there. The latrines
were outdoors, and here again, they were not enclosed booths, so we had absolutely no privacy at all. To anybody that was
used to living at home, these were detestable conditions. As for bathing facilities, here again, it was Army style. We had
to go out and wash outside, as there was no running water or anything like that in the interior of the barracks.
So it was, I thought, really demeaning to have to live in conditions like that. Being young, I think there might have been a certain amount of excitement about the whole thing. But as I think about it today, as a mature individual, I don't know whether I would have tolerated it now. Maybe our parents, like my mom, had more tolerance and more understanding to be able to accept something like that. Evidently, when the Issei first came to the United States, they had many, many situations in which they had difficulty because of the language barrier. So maybe that's the reason why they were able to accept internment a little better. The point is, to be incarcerated as punishment for a crime is one thing, but this treatment because of Japanese ancestry is unbelievable. McFarlane When you were confined to Merced, was it behind barbed wire? How were you detained there? Uyesugi At Merced, I can't remember even attempting to go around a fenced area. I don't think there were any barbed wire fences there at the assembly center. But when we went to the camp in Colorado, we certainly had armed sentries posting the entire concentration camp. McFarlane Were you in those cramped conditions in Merced in the middle of the summer? Uyesugi It was in May and June. I believe it was in July that we started to leave for Colorado. McFarlane What type of transportation did you utilize in traveling from Colorado to Merced? Uyesugi Just a regular passenger train. It was a long ride, hot and sweaty, and very crowded conditions. But here again, under wartime conditions, you accept a lot of things like that. I think one of the things that made it all so difficult for me was the fact that I couldn't justify in my mind the reason why we had to go to camp--interned a disloyal. ― 8 ―
My brother, Ken, who had been going to the University of Southern California--he was in his junior year then--had already
been drafted and was in the military service, serving in the Army. Here they were evacuating us, and there was a member of
the family in the United States Army. So these are some of the injustices that I observed, even at that age.
McFarlane You said your brother was already in the service. I imagine he had some rather strong feelings about the treatment of his family. Uyesugi Yes, he did. We've talked about it. But I guess there wasn't a great deal that he could do about it. He wasn't even able to come back to help us or anything like that. It was really a strange situation. McFarlane What were your first feelings when you saw the camp? Uyesugi Well it was really one of desolation, because here again, the barracks styling on the exterior was basically the same--tarpaper Army barracks. It was a fifteen or twenty minute ride from Lamar or Granada, Colorado, up to the campsite. The camp was located on sand dunes; it was desolate and there was no vegetation. It had barbed wire around the entire camp and, of course, armed guards; they were just doing their job. I think it was a very depressing atmosphere there. McFarlane Were the living conditions similar to those in Merced? Uyesugi Yes. In fact, in Amache [Granada] we had one additonal room. We divided the room we had into two rooms to house the seven of us and Mother because my brother Ken was in the service. The heating was by a potbellied coal stove. In the barracks where we lived, in 8-F, the window level was at about the ground level, because of the hilly terrain of the campsite. So anytime that wind blew there, sand came into the house. The winter months were severe; we had no insulation for the walls or ceilings to resist the cold. There was just this potbellied stove—to warm us. Here again, all the toilet facilities were outside. We had to go out of our living quarters to go to the latrines. Especially during the winter months, to have to go to the outhouse--well, I don't have to elaborate on that! The mess hall was a block away also. Now I think of the elderly and the infants. Wow! The attitude of the Japanese people at that time is something that I really admire, because of the fact that where there had been sand dunes and desolation, after maybe two or three months, one could see little gardens starting to grow and flower gardens blooming. We had a ― 9 ―
a little sign on our living quarters, "Sleepy Lagoon," and little things like that, to try to give it a homey atmosphere.
I guess the people really weren't depressed, but accepted what they had to do and made the best of it. I think for this reason
I really have to admire the people; we helped one another.
Many cultural classes were conducted and some beautiful artworks came out of just pieces of wood that these people got out of wood crates, pieces of branches or just anything there. They carved these into unusual shapes of artistic beauty. I think it was something to really admire. I wish I had the talent but I did give it a try. As far as employment was concerned, I worked in the mess hall for several hours a day for six dollars a month. With the six dollars, we were able to buy little things that we needed at the place like a post exchange. We ordered clothes through a catalogue. What extravagance--six dollars per month? On one occasion, I remember that we were able to get a pass to go out to Lamar. That was expected to be a real treat, but I could feel the hostility in the town. I think the hatred was built up amongst the people through the news media. There were signs around saying, "No Japs Here," or "We don't need any Japs here." It is amazing, since we are all immigrants from one foreign shore, right? But I think patience and good hard work have overcome a lot of this prejudice. Many of the people were previously farmers in California, and had come to marginally tillable soil, and developed the land into something beautiful and productive. We did the same at Lamar. A lot of desolation was there. When we got our people out there, experts in farming, the area just bloomed and production went up. You could see greenery flourishing all over. I believe that even today there are still some evacuated people that remained in that particular area, that established themselves quite securely there and have planted deep fertile roots in Colorado. McFarlane How were the camps administered or organized? Were there Caucasians in charge? Uyesugi Oh, yes. I think all the directors were under . . . I can't remember exactly -- I think Mr. Clay was our camp director. Most of the staff under him, I believe, was recruited from the Japanese people within the camps. I was in the first senior class at Amache, and the teachers ― 10 ―
were quite good, I thought. We had a small athletic program, and we were able to travel outside of camp to play against a
couple of other schools. I think John Hoke, my basketball coach, was very influential in my positive attitudes because he
made every effort to help me. In fact, he went to Colorado State University at Greeley, and contacted John Hancock, the coach
there. He really gave me a good plug, and was able to get me a job there so that I would be able to play basketball. I lettered
in basketball at Colorado State, and got a campus job so I could make ends meet. Certainly my mother wasn't in a position
to support me while I went to school there.
I think people like John Hoke were certainly ambassadors of goodwill. Not that we had to have proof that we were Americans. But a person of a different skin, a Caucasian, was going all out to help. I think these are things that are meaningful and that we related to--a spirit of fair play. McFarlane Was your high school located within the camp? Uyesugi Yes, they built a school in the camp. We had intramural basketball, but we didn't have any gym to play in. So we played outdoors, even in the wintertime. We would have to judge the direction of the wind in the snow flurries whenever we were shooting for a basket. But when you're young and in pretty good shape, I think you can tolerate all that. The classrooms were situated in regular barracks. In retrospect, I feel that it was fortunate that they had educational facilities in camp. Many of the teachers were interned people. However, the majority were outside Caucasians. I think, on the average, the Japanese are quite intelligent and industrious in studying, so the competition was quite keen. One high school teacher who taught commercial subjects, Mrs. Friedman, was particularly helpful to me. McFarlane Were the classes taught in English? Uyesugi Yes, oh yes. Very, very few of us could speak Japanese fluently. Our native tongue was English. We are Americans. McFarlane Were there classes in Japanese at the school? Uyesugi No, not that I was aware of. I never attended any classes in Japanese. There might have been independent classes that were taught in Japanese, flower arranging or something like that. The adult education program was centered around the Issei, our parents, so naturally ― 11 ―
these classes would have been conducted in Japanese. But as a Japanese language school per se, I wasn't aware of any.
McFarlane Were you very much aware of the guards? How were you treated by the military personnel? Uyesugi Well, I think the actual contact with them was very, very, remote. We knew that there were barbed wire fences and guards and sentries there, so there were warnings not to get within a certain restricted distance of the fences. I didn't see any reason to go within the area, so other than that there was very little contact with military personnel. McFarlane Were you conscious that the guards were armed? Uyesugi Yes. McFarlane Was this restriction relaxed later? Uyesugi No, not while I was there. I think they were always armed. But there was no abuse that I was aware of. I heard rumors that at Amache there was some firing of rifles because someone had gotten too close to the fence. I don't believe anyone got killed or wounded. But I personally observed no incident like that. McFarlane How long were you confined in Colorado? Uyesugi Well, I was there just one year, my senior year in high school. Then I was able to go out to school in Colorado. Even prior to that, I did go out in the summer of 1943 to earn a few dollars to get some clothing and stuff to go to school. Evidently, they were short of manpower in the farming areas. We had a lot of young men in the camp. A Mr. Crittendon from Kansas came in to hire help, and I was able to get a job with him. I think that summer was the loneliest time in my entire life. I was hired alone to hoe weeds out in those huge bean fields of Kansas. I lived in a small shack by myself; I cooked by myself; and was just really in a world by myself. There was no one to converse with, no radio, or anything. That was really loneliness, solitude. You can't imagine the unhappiness I felt. Looking forward to college was my only consolation to keep going. McFarlane Were you ostracized by your fellow workers there? Uyesugi No. In fact, it seemed like I was the only one there besides his son and the Crittendon family. So, no, I don't ― 12 ―
think it was that, in particular. But it was just the conditions of solitary confinement.
I think it probably was very charitable for Mr. Crittendon to give a youngster like myself a job to go out and do these menial tasks. Even today, I'm very thankful, because at six dollars a month working at a regular job in camp, I certainly wouldn't have been able to save anything for school expenses. I think I made maybe several hundred dollars in the couple of months that I worked for the Crittendons, and that went a long way in school. McFarlane Did he pay you the going wage at the time? Uyesugi Gee, I wasn't even aware of the going wage! Anything over six dollars a month was gravy! Although this was freedom on the outside of camp, it was more of a solitary confinement as far as I was concerned. I only wish I had his address now to thank him. McFarlane You said that you went on to the University of Colorado. When you graduated from high school, were you given a chance, as a matter of procedure, to go on to higher education? Uyesugi Yes, right. I had a pretty good grade point average and was one of the members of the National Honor Society, so I think that might have helped. As I mentioned earlier, my brother Ken was in the service, and he visited me at camp and we went together to look at the Greeley campus. I wasn't quite aware of it at the time, but I am sure Ken contributed greatly to my acceptance by the school. Once I was there, most everyone was very gracious, very friendly. I think it was a wonderful experience there. Such fond memories still remain with me. So I completed three semesters there, and then I got my Army induction notice from Amache. I was part of the first contingency of Nisei from our camp to go into the service. I don't know, but I think Mother must have had a lot of mixed emotions about whether I should go or not, but she never voiced one objection. She often mentioned how thankful she was of being in America. I know of two instances of young fellows who refused to go into service. Maybe they had a little bit more fortitude than I did, under these living conditions of being ostracized from our American community, being actually stripped of our citizenship, and being confined in a camp. I believe that they had every right to protest. But I don't know about me--maybe it was just because of the way my mother was. You know what I mean. This is America; this is where we reside; and this is where one ― 13 ―
should certainly prove their loyalty. Of the two individuals that I was talking about, one was a friend that I worked and
played ball with and the other was a classmate of mine. Both were very, very intellectual individuals, not radical types.
They were real deep-thinking people. I certainly didn't have any animosity toward them. I think they had the right, so I think
this was their form of protesting what they were being exposed to in camp--even with the threat of imprisonment. Wasn't that
a joke? They were already imprisoned.
In retrospect, I think they certainly had their point. However, if it hadn't been for the 100th Battalion or the 442nd Regiment under General Mark Clark that bled and gave their lives for our country, we wouldn't enjoy what we're enjoying now. Unfortunately, these are the tests that we, as a people, had to go through many times on the battlefield to show our loyalty, so that it wouldn't be questioned anymore. So in our small way, I felt that, well, these guys are doing their job, so why not do the best we can? These were my feelings when I was inducted into the service. McFarlane Were you drafted, then, at the end of your freshman year of college? Uyesugi Yes. McFarlane Where did you go when you were taken into the service? Uyesugi Well, of course, I went from Greeley back to Amache, and they gave us a real nice send-off from the Amache camp. We went up to Camp Carson. It was in Denver, I think. We were processed there, and shipped out to Camp Blanding in Florida, just outside of Jacksonville. We were intended to be a replacement for the 442nd in Europe, which had a high casualty list. For some reason, while I took my basic training down there, we got questionnaires from Camp Savage, which was a Military Intelligence School [MIS] in Minnesota. I was able to write and read and speak Japanese to a certain extent, so I got orders to report up to Fort Snelling, Minnesota, to attend the G-2 Military Intelligence School to serve in the South Pacific. So we went through intensified military classes there and were shipped out to the South Pacific. McFarlane Was that about 1943? Uyesugi No, 1944-1945. An amusing thing happened: After I took my basic training down at Camp Blanding, I went up to report in Minnesota, and they lost all my records. Like ― 14 ―
the government usually does, you know, it was a snafu. So I had to turn around, go down to Fort McClellan, Alabama, and take
another basic training. Boy! That's hilly and sandy down there! I was really hot!
My brother was already in the South Pacific. Serving in the military intelligence, as interpreters and translators in the Army was very "hush—hush" as far as publicity was concerned. But there were about ten thousand of us Japanese Americans in the South Pacific, serving as liaison and picking up whatever Japanese military messages that came through over the wire. In fact, I think the Japanese government was so unaware that they were not cautious. They didn't have any security at all; they wouldn't code their messages. So they were sitting ducks when a message would go over. We intercepted them, and we would be ready for them whenever their troops would attack certain areas. My brother went through the Saipan and the Leyte campaigns. In fact, he was also with the First Dismounted Cavalry,one of the first groups that landed in Japan. I got in more or less at the end of the war. In fact, the war was over as I was en route to Manila. We conducted the war crimes trials in Manila, and tried General Homma and many of the prisoners from Japan's military forces. Manila was like a charred forest with sunken ships as we went in with landing ship tanks. McFarlane At the completion of your military service, after the war crimes trial in the Philippines, were you returned immediately to the United States? Uyesugi Here again, it's kind of amusing. I was attached to the WCID [War Crimes Investigation Detachment], the war crimes trial; at the last moment, I was sent out to northern Luzon. Boy! I had some real eerie feelings, because there were those Negritos, those Pygmies, that are really notorious headhunters, hunting to get the Japanese soldiers. They'd come up and kind of eye me over, and so I always had to have a Caucasian soldier with me all the the time on that island. The Nisei had to protect ourselves—from both sides. McFarlane Why did the headhunters go after Japanese soldiers and not Caucasian? Had they been mistreated, or was it due to superstition? Uyesugi They were indoctrinated to destroy the enemy and that was Japan. They could never be made to understand there were Americans of Japanese descent. By the time I got back to Manila and got my separation papers to come home, the rest of the detachment had already gone up to Japan. They said if I wanted to cancel ― 15 ―
out my separation papers, I could go to Japan, too. But I said, "Baloney, I want to go home!" So I was sent back to Camp Beale,
California. By that time, my wife--I had married Mary nee Shuingu in Minnesota--and my son, who was a GI baby, were back in
Yuba City, California, just a few miles from Camp Beale. So it was a real nice home-coming for me.
McFarlane Can you remember about what year your wife returned to Yuba City? How was she treated when she returned? Uyesugi I would say it was probably in the winter of 1945. Her family had owned property there before and they had had a lot of their furniture and everything stored away. It was completely rifled. Everything was stolen and damaged and everything else. There was nothing that they could salvage. But I think because they were farmers, they had very little contact with the total community. She really didn't comment as to any adverse reactions of people there in Yuba City. They were oldtimers who were born there in Sutter County. They probably saw friends, who outwardly at least showed that they were happy they were back. McFarlane Did they experience any problems in getting back the title to their land? You said that they were farmers in the area. Did they have a clear title to their land before evacuation? Uyesugi Gee, I'm not too sure about that particular aspect of the family holding, as far as assets are concerned. All I know is that they said that they had everything stored in their home and it was all completely damaged. There was nothing salvageable. When I got back to Yuba City, I know that they were farming peach orchards. They had raised prunes previously. So I don't know. Maybe they had stored the properties in the home itself and had disposed of the land prior to evacuation, I don't know. I never did go into the details of that particular aspect. McFarlane Was it 1945 when you returned to Camp Beale in the United States? Uyesugi Yes. McFarlane You were back and you were a discharged GI. What happened when you picked up your family life at that time? Uyesugi When I got back, there was a question of whether we were going to stay on that "52-50" 1. Popular term meaning "fifty dollars for fifty-two weeks." It was a type of compensation for discharged military people unable to find employment. Ed. ― 16 ―
"Sunshine Club." But our son was my mother's first grandchild, so we thought that we would go and visit my mother in Cleveland.
She and the remainder of my family had relocated out to Cleveland, Ohio. Mary, my wife, and quite frugal, and she had saved
all of the Army wife's allotment and the money I had sent back to her. She had just paid only her share of the food, et cetera,
so she'd saved enough for us to take the trip. In fact, my sister, Yayoi, was getting married that June, so we thought we would go back for the wedding. In fact, she asked me if I would give her away.
Also, my brother, Ken, just got back from the service, and was just finishing up his degree at the University of Southern
California, so he couldn't get away then. The trip had sort of a dual purpose: to show off my son to Grandma, and to give
away my sister in marriage. We had all intentions of coming back to California. However, while I was in Cleveland, I figured
I had no attachments, so I looked around and was able to land a job right away. There began my jewelry career. I was repairing
expansion watchbands, et cetera. Through my benefits under the GI Bill, I went through the Cleveland School of Horology, which
is a watchmaking school. From then, I've been in this business ever since. Mother had a large boarding house in Cleveland.
It wasn't in the best part of town, but it was a big house--a badly rundown mansion with sixteen rooms--and it had to have
a lot of improvements. And I don't think anybody else would have lived under those poor conditions. I guess she had to take
what she could get at that time, and compared to a barrack and outdoor latrines this had great possibilities. She used a lot
of elbow-grease and put all of us to work, and we made it livable. I guess anything compared to barracks life was paradise.
Everything is relative, I suppose. It's a strange thing: I think the people in the Midwest and in the East were less discriminatory
than they were here on the Pacific Coast, primarily because of economics. I think this is where a lot of the hostilities were created, because of the accusations that
the Issei, our parents, were now moving close to military installations for espionage purposes. It was just the other way
around: our parents are the ones that took marginal land that nobody else could farm and made beautiful - producing farmland
out of it, and all of a sudden a military installation would come in. Then the war broke out and they said, "What are all
these guys moving in around us for?" So it was a real strange situation in that respect. I think the fact that our parents
are very industrious is a part of our heritage that I'm quite proud of. Maybe it's just that we get sort of a distorted view,
after all, our parents are really people that are pioneers--just like western pioneers--who left Japan and came over here
to make their life. This was a special segment of Japanese people, too. But I'm certainly proud
― 17 ―
of their industriousness.
McFarlane Your mother had what I consider a rough time during the war years. You said that in a way she accepted it and tried to make the best of everything. Has she ever expressed bitterness toward the United States? Uyesugi No. I think this is a wonderful thing about her. The following story illustrates the type of individual she is, her strength of character and spiritual strength. My older sister had spinal meningitis when she was about eleven years old. At that time, when you had spinal meningitis it was either fatal, or if you did recover, there was some sort of deformity in your body. Mother pledged to God that she would forego eating rice. Now if you can imagine a Japanese foregoing eating of rice! For seven years she gave up eating rice, for she had made a covenant with God that if my sister would come out of the illness whole and healthy, she would do this. Her prayers were answered; Sis got healthy after seven long years of no rice. This is the type of individual she is. Later, while Ken, Tak and I were in the service--all during the three years that we were in the service, to insure we would come home safely, she again made a covenant with God. She gave up eating fish. This is again part of her primary diet, and she would rather eat fish three times a day than any steak or anything like that. This is the type of devotion that she had for us, and testifies to her faith in God. Again her prayers were answered; for we returned without a scratch. Such love. This is part of our heritage for which I'm really thankful. That is the type of individual she is, and I'm sure that many, many other Issei parents are individuals of this type. Here again, maybe they are a unique segment of people, that would venture to a foreign country to make a livelihood without even having a knowledge of the language. I don't know. But I certainly thank God every day for having parents like mine, and a Mother like her. McFarlane You were in Cleveland, now, starting your trade. When did you decide to come to Southern California? Uyesugi Well, I made my initial attempt in 1955. Now this was primarily through my brother. He heard of a jewelry store that was available, so I came out on my summer vacation to try to negotiate with the owner. But we couldn't get together on terms. So I finally went back to Cleveland again. Three years later in 1958, it was a strange thing, the same individual decided that he would sell for the price that we had agreed to three years earlier. All the paperwork was handled by my brother here in California. I was in Cleveland, so we were doing ― 18 ―
it by telephone. The reason why I decided on the move in the summer of 1958 was that my former boss, the elderly Mr. Morris
Libman, a Jew, had passed away that summer. He was just like a Father to me. He really took me to heart and was wonderful
to me. Since he was gone, it wasn't very difficult for me to make the move to California. I terminated my services in Cleveland
on a Saturday, flew out to California on a Sunday, and opened up my business, "A Jewel Box" on a Monday. So I didn't even
miss a business day! (laughter)
McFarlane Now you are pretty well-established in the Japanese American community here in Southern California. I know you must have many friends that had similar experiences to yours. Would you say that the overall feeling of the group was that this could be classified as a learning situation? Uyesugi Do you mean in regard to the experience of the camps? McFarlane I mean the relocation, the whole segment of history from 1941 until the conclusion of the war in 1945. Uyesugi As far as the Japanese American community is concerned, or as our total American society is concerned? McFarlane Let's take the Japanese community first. Uyesugi Well, I think the more one thinks about it, the more upset one gets about it, really. Due process of the law is the basic foundation of our democracy. If we're going to circumvent due process of law, there are no civil rights. Discrimination is frightening. As an example, what if the government decides that all boys with red hair have to go to internment camps because you're red-headed you have to go, or all who have Oriental faces. This is what it boiled down to. It was not done on an individual basis. Having an Oriental face was the only physical characteristic that distinguished whether you went or whether you stayed. All the Axis Powers were involved, yet citizens of those lands weren't as easy to distinguish because they were of the Caucasian race. They were equally dangerous, and if the Exclusion Order was going to be carried out equitably, those people certainly should have been interned. These are the things that we Japanese Americans question. Yes, it was a learning process. I think all of us make mistakes. One can't harbor a grudge, because I think the loser is oneself when hatred festers all the time But we're hoping that if we expose what happened then, we will be able, all of us Americans, to expose the injustices that can be caused by certain rules and regulations ― 19 ―
presumably within our Constitution.
Some changes must be made. That's the only way to prevent it from happening again. We can't hide it from the public. Our history books relate very, very little about the evacuation, because all of us hate to rattle the skeletons in our closets. But facts are facts. We hope that more will be published about this. As a Japanese community we have a history project going on through the University of California, Los Angeles that we hope will be published soon. The purpose of all these things is not to feel sorry for ourselves, but hopefully to overcome some of these mistakes so that we won't have to go through them again. If we continue to make the same mistakes and don't learn from experience, then there's something wrong with our society. We can forgive the things that happened under certain circumstances. There was wartime hysteria. Probably those decision makers in power had ulterior motives. But the public in general was quite sheltered from the truth of what was happening. Newspapers and radio reports were saying that there were shellings from Japanese submarines on the Coast, and that resident saboteurs were sending shortwave radio messages, telling what to occupy and things like that. Because of war conditions and the attack on Pearl Harbor, I can understand what the situation was. Really, at that particular time in history, I don't believe the all-white community was much concerned about the welfare of that small segment of Oriental people living in America. I think there was so much discrimination against the Asian people because of lack of understanding. We have certain standards of living and integrity. I think it's reflected in life today--like this tape recorder that you are using is a Sony product, and the Honda bike, and the Datsun automobile. These products are accepted for their intrinsic qualities. In general, people to people, through an inner relationship, have come to understand one another. When you do understand people, then you're less suspicious and fearful that they're going to stab you in the back. I don't know whether I'm just hypersensitive, but even now, when I hear the comment, "Well, I'm not yellow" or "I don't have a yellow streak down my back," I feel offended. I think these snide remarks should be stricken from our vocabulary. So many Nisei have given their lives for this country in various battlefields; I think there's no question about the fortitude of the Japanese American people. I think all of us should become aware of these remarks that we make. Even today, I know that the people that say these things do not intend them as slurs, but I think all these snide ethnic remarks and ― 20 ―
and jokes and things like that should go. One should put oneself on the receiving end of them; it doesn't do anybody any good.
I think the ones that really do mean these remarks are trying to degrade people and to elevate themselves, but I think they
really make themselves just that much smaller. We should accentuate the good points of all people. I think we should strive
to have universal harmony among people.
McFarlane Well, I certainly think that the Japanese Americans have shown that they rose above a situation. You have friends among and business with all races and nationalities now, right? Uyesugi Yes, I certainly do. McFarlane Do you feel that there is still discriminaiton against the Japanese Americans in the business world? Uyesugi I don't believe there is as much as before. There may be to a degree, I guess. I think all of us have the freedom of choice. People don't have to shop here at my store; they can shop wherever they please. But I'm quite happy with the association that I've had with all my customers. But I don't really feel that harvest that I'm reaping now is due primarily to how great a guy I am. I feel that I'm reaping some of the fruits of people like Mr. Shoske Nitta and his sons, Hitoshi, Mits and Min. He is an old-time Orange County resident who has been here fifty years--and the Nittas have been stalwarts in the community. They were not boisterous, but hard workers, developed land, were frugal and honest, paid their debts, and met their commitments. This is the reason why I, as a Japanese, am respected. I think mine was the first jewelry store owned by a person of Japanese descent in Orange County. Some people kind of questioned, whether my business would survive or not. But because of the reputation of these individuals, I feel that a successful venture is very, very possible if I do my work expertly. Of course, I certainly still have to perform. I feel a certain responsibility on my shoulders, and I preach this to my son. We're reaping the benefits of the reputation of those people before us, and we also have to pay our dues while we're here, so others that follow us can continue to be accepted. Sure, many of us can be takers and bleed the society, but there is a law of justification. Someday these things do balance themselves out. We should certainly keep this in mind. Sometimes we get egotistical and think we're great, but we have responsibilities to the people that preceded us, that we should continue to maintain this respect. McFarlane I have asked you a lot of questions. Is there anything ― 21 ―
that you would like to add?
Uyesugi Well, my generation was the Nisei, the second generation of Japanese in America. But some of the Sansei, the third generation--and the Yonsei, the fourth generation--my son's children, question the meekness with which we accepted the evacuation. Many times when they get up and shave in the mirror, I think they do really sometimes think they're Caucasians. Which is good, in a way, I think. They kind of blend their physical characteristics. They feel, "We have no problems because we're accepted. We can go to any restaurant we want." Our Justice Stephen K. Tamura, he recalls when he was refused entry to a public pool; in fact, they asked for his birth certificate when he tried to enter the swimming pool here at Memorial Park--who carries a certificate to a pool--or he had to sit up in the balcony--Is this possible? In Orange County?--here at West Coast Theatre. People remember these things. Despite that, he has excelled because of his excellence. So I tell my son Allan, that each generation has to make its mark. It's not something that we get once and have for all time. It's an ongoing thing. Here again, the Sansei and the Yonsei question us and they bombard us with these things. You know: "Why? Why didn't you resist the evacuation? If we went through the same process now, would we accept it?" Sure, hypothetically we can say this, and we can say that. Or if you get in a position where a person points a gun at you, or you point a gun at them, you can certainly rationalize and say things now, but you don't know what your reaction will be at the time when something happens for real. So the only rebuttal that I have for our children is that they'll have to make their own decisions. We all have to make decisions, small or large, every day of our lives. We hope that they make the right decisions. Decisions are not always something so catastrophical as the evacuation. We tell them, "Well, these are things that were accomplished through perseverance and tenacity; you're able to assimilate today. It's not just because the Japanese Americans are so great, but our total community is more understanding and accepting of you." I tell them that, as the old saying goes, "We're not an island unto ourselves; but we have to, each of us, all be a part of one another." And they answer, "Well, you know, I can do my own thing, and it doesn't affect anybody else." However, I say, "As long as you have an Oriental face, whether it's good or bad, people are going to judge you by that." People that come into my store will often ask me if I have a dentist or a doctor friend whom I can recommend. I think this is the greatest compliment people can pay us, when they seek out a Japanese doctor, or a jeweler, or whatever it might be. It's their personal ― 22 ―
well-being or things that they love or they desire, and they are seeking out Japanese Americans for this type of service.
I think this is a tremendous tribute. Very few people really recognize it as a tribute.
The Japanese American Citizens League, the JACL, is a national organization to which I belong. We're constantly monitoring, seeing that things that are going on will, we hope, benefit all of America, not only Japanese Americans. Of course, our primary interest is in discrimination or any policies against the Japanese Americans, because we certainly must fight our own battles, too. But basically and broader--like our creed says--we intend to be better Americans in a greater America. This is the whole theme of our organization. We're trying to get more people involved in our community. We're a small segment, but I think all of us can do our own share. McFarlane It's a point well-taken. I have just one more question. We have already touched on it. What are your present feelings toward the government? Do you feel that the American government right now is giving you a fair shake? Uyesugi As far as the Japanese Americans are concerned? McFarlane Yes. Uyesugi Yes, I say I'm treated as badly as everyone else. (laughter) I think everything is relative. I say to those that are unhappy with our government, "Do something positive, now burn it down or tear it down, but be of positive attitude." We installed this Japanese garden here in the Orange County Civic Center. It's our small way of saying thank you to the Orange County people and America, that we appreciate all our friends here, and we wanted to give something of beauty. I think that this is the type of positive thing that we can do in a small way. If all of us do a little good, it would really add up. It's just like one vote. If all of us vote, they total up. The sum total is something tremendous. Now, as far as matters political and things like that are concerned, I disapprove of our government having a deficit spending budget. I couldn't conduct my business that way, and I think in our governmental fiscal policy, many things certainly can be corrected. But here again, it's all up to people to exercise their franchise at the voting booth and make their will known. If we don't, we have to accept whatever we get. Another thing that puzzels me is our Vietnam policy--like it does every other parent, of course. In a war of containment like this war is, I feel some real stand should be taken: either get out or do something about it. My ― 23 ―
heart bleeds for the parents when I see the statistics, the very cold statistics every week, "Only fifty were killed, one
of our lowest totals for this week." But when I associate the statistics with a parent or a grand-parent or relatives or friends,
each individual is so important. Whether the losing of precious lives in a war like we have in Vietnam is justified, I have
many, many doubts in my mind.
McFarlane You have been a very pleasant gentleman to talk to, and have expressed your feelings. I thank you very much on behalf of the California State College, Fullerton, Japanese American Oral History Project. |