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Interview
This is an interview with Mr. Roy Uno for the California State College, Fullerton, Japanese American Oral History Project by John McFarlane, at his home at 4405 W. Sunswept St., Santa Ana, California, on April 25, 1971, at 8:00 p.m. Mr. Uno, could you please tell me your age and where you were born? Uno I'm forty-eight years old, and I was born in Oakland, California. McFarlane What were your feelings toward Japan as a nation prior to Pearl Harbor? Uno Prior to that time, I had very little feeling regarding Japan, other than the relationship that the country had as the birthplace of my parents. But as far as being familiar with the area or its customs--other than what was taught to me or what was used around the home--that was the extent of my relationship with Japan. McFarlane In what city in Japan were your parents born? Uno They were born in Kanazawa, which is in Ishikawa prefecture. McFarlane What were you doing when you heard the news of Pearl Harbor? Uno I was out with my friends. We were riding around in his car and had driven up to Palos Verdes. We were on our way down from the hills when we heard this first report. We didn't make too much of it until we came closer to home and got further reports which verified the original report. McFarlane What were your feelings at this time? Uno Well, it was like they just took the rug out from under you. At least, this was the initial feeling, because you immediately felt that there would be some ramifications. ― 2 ―
McFarlane
You were nineteen at this time? Uno I was eighteen at that time. I turned nineteen a couple of months later. McFarlane Were you a student? Uno Yes. McFarlane Where were you going? Uno I was going to Long Beach Junior College. McFarlane What were you majoring in? Uno In advertising and art. McFarlane Where were you living at the time? In Santa Ana? Uno No, I was living in Hermosa Beach. McFarlane When you returned home, did you experience any immediate effect due to this announcement? Was there any change in the attitude of the neighbors? Uno Not immediately, no. I don't think that I was aware of any change of attitude toward me. McFarlane You continued your education then? Uno Yes. McFarlane What was your first official notification that there would, perhaps, be an evacuation? Uno Well, it must have been around the latter part of February 1942. There were many rumors going around, and stories, and even official announcements that kept changing from week to week or day to day. But it was during the month of March that we knew that possible action would be taken to move the Japanese out of the coastal area. McFarlane Was Hermosa Beach considered close to any military installations or any military bases? Uno Not basically. However, since it was on the beach, they did consider the entire coastline a possibility, because there were reports of submarines in and around the South Bay area. They were even alert for possible landings that would take place on the beach because, during the months of February and March, they did have National Guard posted on the beach with machine-gun emplacements put up on the sand facing the ocean. So they were expecting the possibility of some kind of landing. ― 3 ―
McFarlane
Were your parents landholders at this time? Uno Yes. We were buying a piece of property that we were building on. McFarlane What was your father's occupation? Uno He was in the sporting goods business. McFarlane After you received your official notification--with posters up and rumors going around--when did you actually find out that you would be relocated? Uno The official word for our particular area--they were taking certain areas at a time, and we were about the second to be moved--came about the first week in April. In other words, at that time they gave us the definite date. McFarlane How much time did they give you after that? Uno Oh, I would say about a week. McFarlane And what were the circumstances? What were you told that you had to do? Uno Well, at the time they told us they had a meeting point, in Hawthorne or Lawndale. All the people were supposed to assemble that could get there, either with their own cars or by buses or other transportation that was supplied. The understanding was that you could drive your car to the assembly center and at that point it would be impounded. As far as any further instructions, we were told that we could take only what we could carry into the assembly area, which meant basically one suitcase and bedding per person. McFarlane How many were in your immediate family at this time? Uno Four. McFarlane And you drove to Lawndale? Uno Yes. And there was a long caravan that was escorted as it left the area. McFarlane Were you under guard when you left the Hermosa area? Uno Not when we left the Hermosa area. We were allowed to drive to the Lawndale area on our own. McFarlane When you got to the Lawndale area, were there many people there? Uno Oh, yes. McFarlane Can you estimate about how many? ― 4 ―
Uno
Oh, I don't know. There must have been approximately a thousand. McFarlane How long did you remain in the Lawndale area? Uno Until the particular time that was given that everybody should be there, and until they could organize the drive up to the assembly area. McFarlane Now the assembly area was where? Uno The Santa Anita Racetrack. McFarlane How long did you remain at Santa Anita? Uno We were at Santa Anita from April 14, 1942 through the second or third week in August 1942. McFarlane You were held there, then, about four months? Uno Yes. McFarlane What type of quarters did you have at this time? Uno Well, the first ones that moved in were moved into the stable area. In fact, I think the first two groups--and we were the second group that moved into Santa Anita--were all put up in the stable area. So we had one stall for our family. McFarlane Was the area surrounded by barbed wire? Did you feel the confinement at this time? Uno Oh, yes. The minute you drove into the area, which is the main entrance to the park, there was a gate with guards on it. Then all of the surrounding fences had been topped with barbed wire. There were guard stations, towers with guards, and searchlights surrounding the entire area. So there was no mistaking, the minute you moved in and the gates closed behind you, that you were confined. McFarlane How was your treatment by the authorities during this period? Uno The treatment by the authorities was not as bad as the fact that they were unable to cope with the problem. In other words, they weren't accustomed to handling a large number of people: the sanitary requirements, the feeding and the other problems in moving large numbers of people, families, into an area like that. They were experienced in moving troops, soldiers, into large concentrations, and feeding and clothing them, but that's different from having men, women, children, babies, and old folks. McFarlane Was the food adequate at this time? Uno I think adequate would be a proper word, except for the fact that ― 5 ―
because they didn't know how to cope with the vast numbers, the food preparations were very poor.
McFarlane Did Army personnel or civilian personnel prepare the food? Uno Neither. It was prepared by the evacuees. McFarlane What was the basic diet? Uno Well, soft-boiled eggs or cereal was the normal breakfast during that time. The other meals were--they tried to cater to the Japanese, but at that time they had no way of amassing that kind of foodstuff in sufficient quantities, so we had normal fare. It would be meat and potatoes, or whatever. McFarlane This is what you would have been normally eating? Uno Yes, except the preparation was very poor in the early stages, although it did improve as time went along. McFarlane Did you yourself observe any acts of brutality by the guards or any of the authorities at this time? Uno No, none that I ever saw. The only incident that did happen was there were some complaints that certain authorities were going through the barracks and confiscating what they called "contraband." This varied from long scissors and the personal cooking knives that cooks took home with them from the mess hall every day. Then they turned to other accusations of watches missing, money disappearing, and so forth. At one point it did create what was termed a riot at the camp. McFarlane Did you observe this riot? Uno Yes. This is when they brought in the Army in force, when an armored car and GIs with drawn bayonets entered the camp area. McFarlane Were any of the Japanese Americans hurt at this time? Uno No, not to my knowledge. McFarlane Well, after your four months were up, to where were you moved when you left the center in Santa Anita? Uno Well, they started loading up trainloads of people to various destinations. No one knew in advance where they were going. For instance, we were loaded on a train and were told to draw all of our shades in the cars, and this was the way we traveled. We took a southerly route, and as we went along, we heard all kinds of rumors as to where we were headed. We went down to Louisiana, up alongside the Mississippi River, and ended in our camp called Rohwer, Arkansas. ― 6 ―
McFarlane
This was during the latter part of the summer? Uno Yes. McFarlane About how long did the train trip take? Uno Oh, it must have taken four or five days. McFarlane Can you describe a little bit about the trip? Uno Well, it was very tedious. We were seated in the regular coach where the seats would recline somewhat but, due to the crowded conditions of having so many people in the cars and having little children and babies crying and kids running up and down the aisles and old folks, the whole trip was almost unbearable. In addition to the slow pace at which the train traveled, it would sidetrack every time a through train came by. We would sit on the siding for an hour or two, in the heat, and then continue again. It was in the latter part of the summer, so it was hot going through Texas and the Southern states. McFarlane How were you fed and what were your sanitary conditions on this train? Uno I really can't recall at this time how we were fed, but I believe we did go into the dining cars. This was for the morning and evening meals. At noon, I believe, they passed out little lunch boxes with oranges and a sandwich or something. As far as sleeping, we just slept in the chair like any coach passenger would. The sanitary conditions--you can imagine the long lines you would have to stand in to get to the restrooms. So it was a period or a particular experience that I recall very little of, because it wasn't something that one wants to remember that well. McFarlane When you arrived at the camp in Arkansas, can you give me your reactions when you first saw the camp? Did the train unload right at the camp? Uno Yes. The railroad tracks came right up alongside the campgrounds, and pulled off to a siding and everybody unloaded. There were a few camp personnel that had preceded us, and they tried to organize the group. For people who had never been out of the state of California, or even out of Southern California, to arrive in a place like Arkansas where you saw these tar paper covered barracks in a clearing out of a forest--you really thought you were in another world, that this was not a part of the United States that you would recognize. McFarlane About what time did you arrive at the camp? Uno It must have been midmorning. McFarlane Then how were you processed? By families? ― 7 ―
Uno
Yes. Having an older brother and my dad who could take care of most of the details, I wasn't too involved with that phase. The entire camp was set up in blocks with so many barracks per block, and we were given a block number. I think this was done in advance by the camp personnel who had the list of people coming, and they just arbitrarily put them into certain blocks. Our train took up four blocks. There were thirty-two blocks in the camp. We were the first, or one of the first, to arrive at this camp. McFarlane Can you comment on the living facilities that were assigned to you? You said it was a tar paper barrack. How much of this barrack was assigned to your family? Uno They had units for two and four and then they would double up the two units for six and so forth. Since we had four in our family, we got a unit for four, which had a good-sized room. Coming from the stables at Santa Anita, this seemed like a real nice place for us, because it had two windows. Being in Arkansas where they had quite a bit of hardwood, our floors were of oak, and there was one big stove on one end of the room. The walls were plasterboard, and there were frame windows. It had one door. It was well off the ground, I'd say about four feet off the ground. To us it was a nice clean accommodation. This was fine at the time we arrived. Things changed a little as winter came on and the cold winter weather set in. But it was clean and it was new, and as far as we were concerned, it was entirely livable at the time we moved in. McFarlane Again, what were the sanitary facilities like there? Uno Each block had a washroom and restroom and showers and so forth, in a separate building, one to a block. I would say the facilities were adequate. There were enough shower stalls and bathroom facilities for all the people in the block. McFarlane After you arrived and had been processed at the camp, what were you assigned to do? Were you assigned to a specific duty? Uno Well, they called it "jobs." You could apply for a job. I think there were three classifications, and they paid from twelve to sixteen dollars a month. However, if you didn't feel like doing anything, you didn't have to work. Some volunteered and went to work in the mess hall, as cooks, dishwashers, and so forth. A large number of men and boys took jobs as--they called them "lumberers." We had to go out and cut firewood for the winter. In other words, every block was supposed to supply their own wood for the stoves. Each block would send out a force into the forest to cut down these old twenty, thirty foot trees and cut them into sections. They would load them onto two-and-a-half ton trucks and bring them back into the area. There they would cut them into short pieces and split them and then stack them. Some blocks would ring their entire area with firewood. It would be like a wall that was about six to eight feet high and about five feet deep. This lasted only part ― 8 ―
of the winter. So this is where most of the effort was, to supply wood for the stoves.
McFarlane Was there any effort made toward education? Did you set up a school system in the camp? Uno Yes, there was a school system set up, and they had all the grades. There were enough people that could teach. At that time, there weren't that many bona fide teachers, but they did get enough people together that could teach the fundamentals. The big problem was discipline. Since they were not under a regular state program, the kids knew that they didn't have to go to school if they didn't want to, and there was nobody to enforce attendance. So, I think, the education they did get in school just kept them from sliding backward, but it didn't really progress them too far. McFarlane Did you have any organized recreational program in the camp? Uno Yes. Recreation was one of the strong points, I would say, because there was enough experienced personnel able to handle that phase of it. Every block had selected or appointed a recreation leader, and they also had representatives that sat in on the entire camp recreation program. So they had basketball leagues, soft-ball, and all the sports. In addition, they had dances and socials in the various mess halls. So for the young people, camp life took care of that very well. McFarlane Was the actual administration of your block area under the Japanese Americans, or did you have a Caucasian in charge of your block area? Uno No. We elected our block leader and the assistant, and they represented us at whatever camp-wide meetings that would be held. If there were any complaints or things like that, they would take it to the camp authorities for us. McFarlane Was this camp also ringed by barbed wire with armed guards? Uno Yes. Yes, it was. McFarlane And were you conscious of these guards? Uno No, not as much as we were at Santa Anita, because the towers there really gave it a rather imposing view. I mean, it was like a POW compound, where you see ten foot guard towers with searchlights and machine-guns. But in Arkansas, the security was much more relaxed. McFarlane Who did the policing of your block areas? Was this done by the Caucasian authorities, or was this also done by the Japanese? Uno No, the Japanese had their own. They had a camp police department. Again these were all Japanese Americans. There wasn't too much trouble, and I don't recall very many incidents in which they had ― 9 ―
to be called. But they made it known that there was a police force within the camp, so everybody stayed in line pretty well.
McFarlane Was your treatment by the authorities harsh at first? Uno No. The camp authorities were, I think, rather sympathetic to our situation, although they had to carry out the directives that were given to them, which may not have been what we would have liked. But, I think, each camp director felt some responsibility toward the people that he had in his camp. McFarlane We've got you to camp, and we have you settled, and we have you in a job. Let's take up the first winter now. Was it a harsh winter? Uno It's hard to say since we had never experienced a winter like that, but it did get cold. It didn't snow, but we had a couple of hail-storms that left about six inches of hail on the ground. The wood situation was something that nobody could anticipate. In the fall they stockpiled what everybody thought would be sufficient, but with a cold spell the wood would disappear, which meant that the crews would have to go out into the forest on these lumber or woodcutting expeditions. It may be wet, the ground may be muddy, and the trucks had difficulty getting in and out; but without the wood, there just wasn't any heat. Whereas at other camps, where wood was not available, the government supplied them with coal, oil, or whatever type of fuel they had. But we didn't have any coal for oil which meant that we had to use this firewood or cut our own firewood. The big problem was that in that particular section of Arkansas the forest was just loaded with what they called "pin oak," which is a type of oak tree. It's very hard and very difficult to split. It burns well once you get it started, but we had no kindling wood. This was one of the big problems, to get a fire started in the morning. We spent many, many smoke-filled mornings trying to get the fire started. But that was the greatest difficulty that the winter presented us with. McFarlane How long did you remain at the camp in Arkansas? Uno I was in there less than a year, from the latter part of August until-May of the following year. That's about nine months. McFarlane And what were the conditions of your leaving? How were you moved out or how were you provided the chance to move out? Uno In the spring of that year, word came that those people who had guaranteed jobs waiting on the outside would be allowed to leave camp. But they had to have in writing a definite offer for a job before they would be allowed to leave. So we waited until some of the first ones had left camp, and we heard from one of our friends that this particular type of job in hotels were plentiful in Chicago and the larger cities. This friend happened to be working at the Edgewater Beach Hotel in Chicago. He gave us the name of the person ― 10 ―
to write to, so we wrote a letter. My buddy and I applied for a job at the Edgewater Beach Hotel. We got a letter back saying
that there were two positions open. So we took the letter in to the camp director, and he worked out the release for us.
McFarlane Did your family remain in the camp? Uno Yes. I was the only one that left at that time. McFarlane Were you twenty years old? Uno I was nineteen. McFarlane What was your draft status at this time? Uno Let's see. At that time, I really don't recall, because I did register, I remember, when I was in Santa Anita. We were classified as 4-c, which is really for aliens unavailable for service. McFarlane Were you given an opportunity at this time, prior to leaving camp, to enlist in the Army? Uno Yes, I would say during the early spring, around February of 1943, a team of recruiters came into camp and they held interviews in the mess halls. This was partly through the efforts of the Japanese American Citizens League in trying to get a special unit organized to serve in the Armed Forces. So with this they came into the camp to see what they could do to recruit Japanese Americans into the service. I thought they did fairly well--I mean, as far as numbers are concerned. There were those that did enlist. I recall that in one section of the camp, where the people came from a particular area that was much more closely-knit, the parents had blocked off the entrance to the mess halls so the youngsters couldn't get into the mess halls for the interviews. But all in all, I would say, they got about fifty boys out of our camp to enlist. McFarlane What were your feelings at this time? Uno Well, at that time the type of youngster that would enlist--and it didn't matter whether they were in camp in Arkansas or whether they were living in Los Angeles . . . it just takes a certain type that, when they say, "Come on and enlist!," they're going to be the first ones in line to enlist. Well, out of, I don't know how many, hundreds eligible, you're always going to find this group that is going to be ready to go. And I didn't think that I was ready to go yet, or I wasn't of that mind to jump in. McFarlane Were you particularly bitter about your movement to Arkansas at this time? Uno No, I wouldn't say bitter, not at that time. As a nineteen-year-old, ― 11 ―
it was a great experience. You didn't know what was going to happen, but I think it was just the fact that you were out of
California or that you were traveling halfway across the country. It was something that was unexpected for most kids my age.
McFarlane Were you ever given a clear explanation as to why you were moved to Arkansas, outside of being of Japanese ancestry? Uno Not other than the fact that it was a presidential decree. I think this is one part that may have been a detriment to us, the fact that most Japanese people, through their parents and through their ancestry, are told to really respect authority. And when they tell you to move, you move. You really don't question it too much. You may question it, but you don't openly ask. At that time, at least, I don't think that most of the Japanese people were mentally in the postiion to even question it. They weren't brought up that way. McFarlane Did the government make a conscious effort to explain the situation? Uno No, it was just wartime. McFarlane You weren't given any lectures at the camp explaining the situation? Uno No. McFarlane We have you on the way to Chicago. When you secured your release from the camp, were you on your own then, or did you go by government transportation? Uno Well, they paid the fare to Chicago for us, but other than that . . . I remember we pulled into the Dearborn Station in Chicago, which is just south of the Loop. We came out of the station like two typical tourists and looked up at the tall buildings, and we didn't know where to start. So we took a cab and he gave us a good run-around. But it didn't take us too long to get our bearings and get situated. McFarlane How did you find the attitudes of the people in Chicago when you first arrived? Uno I personally was a little afraid of what the attitudes might be, because I knew that we had come out of these relocation camps, and we didn't know how much the people knew of what had happened to us. But in Chicago, being an urban area, highly urbanized, and during the midst of the war, the people were just too busy doing their jobs to really be concerned with us. We didn't find that there was nearly the kind of racial tension that we found on the Pacific Coast. So we were able to just sort of slip into the Chicago picture and not become fronted with too many situations. There would be an occasional situation that would come up, but we just shrugged it off because we knew that the people generally were not that way. We just considered these more as isolated cases, ― 12 ―
and also we felt that we had some responsibility to maintain our position of not causing trouble and not bringing attention
upon ourselves, so we kept our noses clean. I would say we did take some remarks and offhanded things were said, but overall
I don't think there was anything that upset me in Chicago.
McFarlane Were these remarks that were made by your fellow employees at the place of employment? Uno No. This could be in a restaurant, or waiting in a station, or something like this. But we'd keep saying that he could be a father who has lost a son. We did try to make up these excuses and to consider their side of the story. But in the major cities like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, and New York you could almost be swallowed up in the city, and I don't think they really looked at you twice as to whether you were Japanese or not. McFarlane Did you have to report to anybody after you got to Chicago? Was there a constant check or surveillance? Uno No. Once we passed through the gates of the camp in Arkansas, that was the end. McFarlane How long did you remain in Chicago? Uno Until I got drafted. The minute we went out, see, then we were eligible. This is what happened. The minute you got out, then you became suddenly 1-A because you were not being detained by the government. So you were once again available for service. So once they got out, most of the kids that we knew of our age were being drafted, one after the other. So I worked for about a year in Chicago, then the draft came along and we started getting notices. All of our buddies were going anyway, so my roommate and I joined the others. McFarlane Where did you take your basic training? Uno That was Fort McClellan in Alabama. McFarlane What type of training did you receive? Uno It was just strictly basic. Well, at the time there were really two choices open to a Nisei: he could be drafted and be assigned to the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, which was in Camp Shelby, Mississippi, or he could join the other unit which was the Military Intelligence School up in Minnesota. So my roommate and I figured, "Well, with those two choices, we might as well get some schooling if we can." So we wrote to the Military Intelligence Committee inquiring about what was required. They immediately sent us back a letter and examination papers to fill out, which was writing the Japanese alphabet and translating three lines of English into Japanese. We looked at that and we thought we were out, so we just threw them away. Two weeks later we got another ― 13 ―
letter with a red border around it. It said, "Immediate Action," and inside it was another one of those test papers. It told
us to fill it out and send it back immediately. So we did what we could. We filled out about half of the alphabet, and we
left the three translation lines blank and sent it back. In less than a week we received a letter from them saying, "Congratulations,
you've been found qualified to enter our Military Intelligence Language School." So off we went.
McFarlane Had you any previous training in the Japanese language? Uno Yes, when I was eight, nine, and ten years old--about three years of private Japanese lessons. That was the extent of it. McFarlane This was at your parents' request? Uno Yes. McFarlane You finished basic and then went to school in Minnesota? Is that right? Uno Yes, we went there for nine months. McFarlane Then where were you reassigned from Minnesota? Uno Then from Minnesota we went to the Philippines. There we joined what was called the Allied Translator Interpreter Service, which had nearly three thousand Nisei working out of a large pool of translators, interpreters, and interrogators. They were assigned in teams to the various divisions, battalions, and so forth as they were requested. McFarlane Did you see action in the Philippines? Uno Yes. McFarlane This was in 1944, right? Uno Right. McFarlane Were you in the Philippines at the end of the war? Uno Yes. McFarlane What happened to you at the conclusion of the war? Uno Well, at the conclusion of the war, there was a group of us that was sent up to the hills to a camp, and from there we were reassigned in teams into military government groups. These were the teams that would assist the various Army groups in taking over territories in Japan or wherever and running the government. They were taking over the civil government, police, the fire department, and the judicial systems, and running the government ― 14 ―
there.
McFarlane Then you actually went to Japan? Uno Well, unfortunately, I was one of twenty out of several hundred that got assigned to Korea. There were two teams that were assigned to Korea, one at Seoul and one at Pusan. I was one of those that went to Pusan. So I didn't even get . . . well, I stayed overnight in Yokohama, en route to Korea. That was the extent of my stay in Japan. McFarlane About how long did you remain in Korea? Uno About six or seven months. So I returned. We landed at Seattle, I was discharged at Camp McCay in Wisconsin, and then went home to Chicago. McFarlane Then you considered Chicago as your home? Uno Yes. My dad was living in Chicago at the time, so I considered that my home. I was inducted from Chicago. I left from there, so I came back to Chicago. McFarlane Was your dad in business in Chicago? Uno No, he was just employed. McFarlane How did you happen to return to the West? Did the family decide at this time to come back to Southern California? Uno No. I stayed in Chicago for two years after that. I did take a trip out to California, immediately after I was discharged, and took a look around. It was not the same Southern California that I had left when we were evacuated. I went back to Hermosa Beach to see if any of my old buddies were around. Most of them were gone and all the businesses were changed. During the war, many of the aircraft workers had moved into town, and it was full of bars and dance halls. It had changed its personality completely. Then I went into various parts of Los Angeles and looked up friends, and it was really not what I had dreamed of for all the years that I had been away from it. So I went back to Chicago and found employment there. McFarlane What employment did you find? Uno I got into photography in Chicago, and I worked at that for better than two years. Finally, I decided--well, now at that time, around 1948 and 1949, there were quite a few going back to California from Chicago. Chicago had quite a population of Japanese during the war, but little by little they were drifting back to California. So around 1949, I just thought, "Well, I'm going to go back there and see what I can do." So I left Chicago on my own and went into Los Angeles and stayed at the hostel they had set up in Los Angeles ― 15 ―
just for this type of situation. People coming back from the East could stay at the hostel until they relocated themselves,
in other words, found themselves a place to stay and got their bearings and so forth. It was sort of a stopping-off place,
stopover place. It worked out real well. It served the people very well.
McFarlane How did you find things when you came back to Southern California? You said they were changed when you came back for a visit. How about when you decided to relocate back here in California? How were you treated when you came back? Uno When we came back, I would say that I didn't have any problems. I think that the conscience of the people had really caught up with the native Californians. Also the fact that during the war period there was such a great influx of people from other parts of the country, that when they came in and mixed with the native Californians, it sort of diluted the entire attitude to where it wasn't such a big issue. Only in the smaller communities where the influx of the outsiders was not as great did the Japanese people find some hostility. I think the early signs of that were in some of the barbershops, in some of the small Central California communities. But in Los Angeles and in Southern California where there was a tremendous influx of people from other states who were really not aware of what happened about the evacuation and about the Japanese people and so forth, there wasn't that much concern. McFarlane Did your father return? Uno Yes. He came back later, about a year afterward. Again, there really wasn't that much to draw us back here, other than the fact that this was where we were raised, because we had lost our property after evacuation. It was a case where we had asked some people to watch it, and we had rented it out and asked them to send the collection to us in camp. Well, from the minute we left, we didn't receive a dollar from them. We were in the process of buying it, which meant payments were due. So our real estate friend down the street advised us that rather than having it foreclosed, we would be better off to sell it. So we did sell it, and got just what we had put into it. The people who bought it, I think, three years later sold that same piece of property for ten thousand dollars. We had purchased it for twenty-five hundred, and they sold it for ten thousand. So when the evacuation claims came, the only thing that we got out was the loss that we had sustained in selling the property, which came to about eight hundred dollars. McFarlane You were reimbursed eight hundred dollars? Uno Yes. McFarlane But no compensation for income that you would have had during the period? ― 16 ―
Uno
No. Good will wasn't worth anything. You couldn't put down good will as a valid claim. McFarlane And the money was based on 1941 values? Uno Yes, everything was paid in 1941 values. It took many, many years before this came about, so I think they had what they called a minor claim, up to twenty-five hundred dollars, which could be processed in a shorter time. If it was over twenty-five hundred, then it took individual action to approve the claim. And they said that could take many, many, many years. So many people settled for that twenty-five hundred dollars. Those that had maybe five thousand coming or forty-five hundred, or whatever, settled for the lesser amount because they felt that it was better to get it now than to wait five or ten years for it. So, like I say, there was really no reason for my dad to come back, other than to hope that he could start another business again. I think if there was any hardship, this was the greatest one. It's only now that I realize how much of a hardship it was on my dad. When he was evacuated, he was in his middle forties, and you figure they had raised a family through the Depression, and they had just come up on their own, being able to buy property and gradually building their business. Then suddenly it was completely taken out from under them. Then when they came back, it was another eight or nine years later. He was in his fifties, and the question was in his mind, I'm sure, as to whether he was still able to start from the beginning and build up a business. So for them the loss was great, not just in dollars. McFarlane What about your mother's and father's feelings toward the government? Were they--well, I'll use the work--bitter? Could you elaborate on their feelings? Uno Well, I'm sure that they felt hurt because of the fact that they lost everything they had worked so hard for. But I don't think there was any bitterness. I think the Japanese have a word for it, an expression in which they figure, well, that's the way the ball bounces. If they have to start from the beginning, they'll start from the beginning again. But I don't think my dad held a grudge against anyone or the government for that. The only satisfaction, I think, they would get out of the whole experience, as it may have been for them, is the fact that their sons and daughters were able to come out of it and do as well, if not better, than they had ever hoped. This alone would sort of atone for part of the loss that they had incurred. Because I feel, as far as I was concerned, that my future was fairly fixed, even through high school, as to what I would be doing when I grew up in Southern California. But the experience of having been forcibly moved out, relocated in Chicago, and exposing me to a number of new things that I had never dreamed of experiencing, and because of the war and the manpower shortage, they were willing ― 17 ―
to take almost anybody who could fulfill the position, we were able to get the experience and the background necessary to
really expand our capabilities.
Like in Long Beach Junior College, I had been majoring in art and advertising without really having much hope of ever doing anything in that. Yet, it's strange that right now this is the very field that I'm in; I'm in advertising and in art also. The way I got to this position today is through the background and experience that I had in Chicago. That was the first step. Then when I came back to Southern California, I made the second, third, and fourth steps, and finally got to this position of being in advertising in the field that I wanted to be. McFarlane Did you go back to school when you returned to Southern California? Uno No, I didn't. McFarlane When did you locate in Orange County? Uno About ten years ago, eleven years now. I was in Los Angeles until that time--from 1949 through 1959. McFarlane And at the present time you are taking an active interest in your city government here in the City of Santa Ana, is this correct? Uno Yes. McFarlane Would you elaborate a little bit on your position? I know that you are a member of the Human Relations Commission here for the City of Santa Ana. Uno Yes, I am. This is an interest that I've had for a long time, and I feel that we have to outgrow really the ethnic background. In other words, I am concerned with what is happening to the Japanese Americans, not only in the community, but throughout the nation. But I feel that I should also be concerned with the welfare of other people. There are many others that need help and assistance--not only assistance--but all they are asking for is someone to even think about their condition. We're all in this together and the Human Relations Commission is looking into aspects of housing, welfare--surprisingly, the large number of people who are hungry--and jobs, problems of minorities in getting jobs, and adequate education. So I feel that, with my background and experience, perhaps I can impart a little insight into the feelings of some of these people. This is why I feel that the City of Santa Ana, especially, having as good a mix as any city in Orange County as to the number of Blacks and Mexican Americans and others are concerned, that this is the community that must show the rest of the country that it can be compassionate with the needs of the people of the city. McFarlane Do your children ever question you about this period of your life ― 18 ―
that we have just talked about?
Uno Yes, they do. It's because they're starting to hear, they're becoming aware, that things like this happened. In their world today, I don't think they would dream of anything like this ever happening to them or that it had ever happened to anybody. I think the second generation, of which I'm a part, are a little more closely related to the first generation, our parents, and that we really don't talk about it much. But now as we get a better perspective on this, I think we're going to begin to talk about it more. And I think we're going to see to it that our third generation children know what went on and what happened, what our feelings were. Because otherwise they feel that there is an empty void in their background, something that happened to their parents that they don't know about. So there is a strong movement on now to bring this to their attention, in a factual form, and I think this is what will really narrow the communication gap between second generation parents and their children. McFarlane You mentioned earlier in the interview that you, being a second generation Japanese American, had been brought up to accept and not to question authority. Do you think that the third generation would react to an evacuation order in the same way? Uno No, I don't think they would. They would take, I would say, quite the opposite view. I'm sure that they would fight it all the way. I think we would expect them to fight it all the way, that we would not tell them to do exactly as they were told in that situation, if a similar situation would come up. I think we would stand up and fight alongside with them. McFarlane Then you feel that times are changing and people are becoming more aware of their neighbors and their neighbor's problems? Uno Yes, I think so. In our days, when we grew up, yes, we had neighbors, but they were there and we were here, and that was the extent of it. But I think now you just can't separate it. If you live on a block, the block is in the city, and the city is in the county, and the county is in the state, and they all interrelate. I don't think you can live by yourself as much as you would like to. No matter how we bring our own children up within the house, the minute they leave the house and they're exposed to the other environment, there are going to be pressures on them to go to school. Everywhere they go they're going to have other pressures, other influences, and so you have to prepare them for the total involvement, and not just a very narrow, one-household type of concept. McFarlane Would you like to comment of your present feelings toward the government? Uno Well, I guess among the second generation here in the country, ― 19 ―
they consider me a little more liberal than the natives out here, but I don't know. Being brought up in Los Angeles, I think
you are exposed to more. I went to school with a number of blacks. In fact, the junior high school was like ninety percent
black. I grew up along Central Avenue, and the kids that I went to school with are today doing rather well. They've all gone
at least through junior college, and they have good jobs and they are buying homes and they're raising good kids, and in the
black community now many of them are called Uncle Toms. Well, this is surprising since I grew up with them. But after seeing
how they have progressed, I think many of the others can progress as well if everybody would become more concerned.
I think today we feel that it's easier not to be concerned, that whatever problems they're having are their problems. But I don't think you can look at it this way and this is why I feel very strongly that the city and the state should take a closer look at these problems and become more aware. For example, I've gone to city council meetings and heard councilmen, or the mayor, make the comment that "Our job is to do what's best for the city." And we of the Human Relations Commission always correct them and remind them that their job is to do what is best for the people of the city. There is a difference. This is the area that I feel very strongly about. I feel that the people have to be considered in whatever action the government takes. This goes back to the evacuation. Again I think they were doing what was best for the government at the time, but I think that they were not thinking about the people that were involved. This is why I feel so strongly that even the people that are right now at the bottom of the ladder should get every consideration from the officials and the government and the people to give some consideration to their plight, and see what can be done to help them along with the progress and the big new buildings and the other needs of the city. McFarlane You seem to be very people-oriented. Uno Yes. I think this is the point that I would like to stress, because so often, I think, through no fault of anyone in particular, you tend to overlook this aspect of any problem. Because whether it's a little child or a grown-up that can be hurt, that can be affected by certain actions, I think we have to consider what the reaction will be before we take the action. Because during my lifetime I experienced two cases of out-and-out discrimination that have conditioned by attitude toward human relations. I've always thought that whatever happens, I don't want my children or any child to ever have to run up against discrimination in any form because it really hurts. McFarlane Will you elaborate on this? Uno Well, the first instance took place when I was in sixth grade, and we went up to Brookside Park. The parents of this schoolmate of mine invited me to go along with him on a picnic. It ― 20 ―
was a typical summer day and it was about 104 degrees up in Pasadena, so his mother gave us three dimes and said, "Why don't
you go swimming before we eat lunch?" So my buddy and his brother and I took off for the pool and charged up to the gate.
They threw their dimes up there and charged on in, and I put my dime up there and the girl looked at me and said that "International
Day is on Fridays only." So, at the time, I took my dime back, went around the side, and I looked through the chain-link fence.
My buddy said, "Come on in." I said, "Well, they won't let me." So I watched them from the outside. Then afterward they came
out and we had lunch and nothing more was said. But when I look back on that, it really hurt. This is why I say, I hate to
think that anything like that would be going on today in which some child is hurt because he can't swim in a pool whenever
he wanted to.
McFarlane I can see how that memory would linger with you. You mentioned one other incident. Uno The other one had to do with the Boy Scouts. It was a similar case where this same buddy and about four other schoolmates of mine all belonged to one Scout troop. Well, I went along with them, attended their meetings for about three months, and finally my buddy asked the Scoutmaster, troop leader, if I could join because I had been doing all the different things that the other kids had been doing. The Scout leader told my buddy, "No, they wanted to keep this troop an all-white group." So, at that point, I didn't realize it at the time, but my buddy and one other boy quit the troop because they wouldn't let me join. I didn't think too much of it then, but today I look back and feel that it was quite a thing for those two boys to do, that they felt that since they wouldn't let me join, that they didn't want to be part of the Boy Scout troop. These could be isolated cases, but even if they're isolated, I hate to think that anything like that could happen to any boy today. There's just no reason for it happening. McFarlane Well, I certainly hope, with the effort you're making through your Human Relations Commission and the effort that I feel the city is making, that these situations could not arise in our city or in Orange County today. Uno I think that's one of the reasons why we're there--to make sure that it doesn't happen, and if it does, that they will let us know, and action will be taken. McFarlane Do you feel that right now the Japanese Americans are being discriminated against just because they are of Oriental ancestry? Uno I think that it has diminished considerably. It's taking more subtle forms today, and it's more difficult to pinpoint, but it is one of the reasons why we do have organizations such as the Japanese American Citizens League, to be a watchdog and be a listening post from all parts of the country on any form of discrimination that may appear, in order to stop this before it ― 21 ―
really gets started, and take proper action. I think we're in a position today where we can take action to stop any form of
discrimination, at least against people of Japanese ancestry.
McFarlane Many of our most prominent citizens here in Orange County and within Santa Ana are of Japanese American ancestry. In fact, we have a gentleman on the city council now that is of Japanese ancestry. Uno Yes, I think that the county has improved considerably and it's hopefully going to move very strongly in that direction for all peoples, not only Japanese, but Blacks and Mexican Americans too. Since their problem is, at this moment, far greater than what ours is or ours has ever been, other than the evacuation. McFarlane I think the mode or the method of solving the problems of the Japanese Americans--to work within the law and order scope of government--is very commendable. Uno I think this again goes back to our parents and the heritage of respecting the authority and doing things within the lawful and legal means. Some may complain that it's not the fastest or most judicial use, but in the long run and over the years, it has proven to be very effective. McFarlane Well, I certainly want to thank you for spending the time that you did with me this evening on this interview. I appreciate it very much. Uno Well, I think it's a very worthwhile project, and it's something that I'm going to be extremely interested in when it's completed. McFarlane I'm sure it will be of great value to everyone interested in the Japanese American evacuation. Once again, Mr. Uno, on behalf of the California State College, Fullerton, Japanese American Project, thank you very much for your time, cooperation, and candor. |