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Interview
This is an interview with Roy Y. Taketa for the California State University, Fullerton, Japanese American Project, by Mary M. McCarthy at 9972 Potter Avenue, Bellflower, California, on July 13, 1973, at 1:00 p.m. Mr. Taketa, I'd like to ask a little about your parents' background, their place of birth. Taketa My father was born in Fukuoka, Japan; my mother too. McCarthy When did they come to this country? Taketa The first time my dad came here, when he was a bachelor, was in 1916. Then he brought Mother back in 1919. McCarthy What was he doing for an occupation when he first came to this country? Taketa He worked on a farm. McCarthy A laborer? Taketa A laborer, yes--when he was a young man. McCarthy What area was that? Taketa That was in Signal Hill in Long Beach, believe it or not, in the city. He should have bought some land. They would be rich now. McCarthy (laughter) He came in legally to this country? Taketa Yes, he came in legally. ― 2 ―
McCarthy
Was he recruited in a work crew? Taketa No, I think he volunteered himself to come over here to earn some money to go back to college. He made enough money, went back, got his education, got married, and then came back here again. McCarthy How long did he work here before he went back? Taketa Oh, I think he told me about three or four years. I can't remember now. Somewhere around three--or four years. Four years, I think. I'm not too sure on that. How much does that make? 1916 . . . About four, doesn't it? McCarthy Sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen. He went back and . . . Taketa Married her and then came back. McCarthy He married her in Japan? Taketa Right, yes. Then he came back. He got his education . . . Well, I take it back, Mary. He came over here and earned enough money to go back to college. Then he went back to Japan, and I think he had only about two or three years left to finish college. He got his college education out of the way, and then he got married and then came back. He got his college degree, and then he came back. He majored in agriculture and secondary education, I think, in Japan. So when he came back he was going to farm back here with his sister who had a farm in Colorado. I will tell you later how we got back there. McCarthy Okay. Taketa Then he came back and he was given a chance to teach in a Japanese school here in Los Angeles, to teach the Japanese youngsters how to speak Japanese, how to write Japanese, and so forth. Then he stuck with that, for, I would say, all through my childhood--I think about twenty years. Before I was even born he was teaching Japanese language to these kids that went to American school, you know, during the day--all day, and then they went to Japanese school in the evening after school. He was involved in that program. McCarthy So you attended Japanese school as a child, too? Taketa Yes, yes. I wasn't the star pupil though. (laughter) McCarthy (laughter) Do you have brothers and sisters? Taketa Right, I have two brothers and one sister. McCarthy Are they older? Where are you in the line? Taketa I am the third one in line. ― 3 ―
McCarthy
Other than the Japanese school, which was certainly community involvement, was your father active in anything else, like the Japanese American Citizens League? Taketa No, the JACL is mostly for Nisei. I belong to the JACL and it is basically a Nisei organization. The Issei had . . . They were more involved in the Buddhist Church. A lot of them were. And they were involved in the Judo Society and the Kendo Society. I remember my dad used to be involved in those things pretty heavily, the Judo Society and Kendo. You know what kendo is? You know, the sword thing with the bamboo. McCarthy Yes. Taketa He was involved a little bit in that. McCarthy Where was he living? In Los Angeles? Taketa Los Angeles, yes, during my early childhood. McCarthy What area? Taketa It was on Vermont Blvd. and Melrose. It is called the Hollywood Gakunen. That is the school. See, gakunen is the school, Japanese school. He was involved with that. McCarthy He was of the Buddhist religion? Taketa Yes, my dad is. McCarthy Were you, or are you? Taketa Well, we were brought up, you know, in the Buddhist religion. My brother, believe it or not, is Catholic. A strong Catholic, and I am Christian. McCarthy Did he marry into a Catholic family? Taketa He married into a Catholic family, yes. My sister is a Zen Buddhist and my brother is a Nichenen Buddhist. My brother and I are the only Christians. We split up. Father said, "Go your way after you get old enough." So that is what we decided to do. My wife Arlene is a Buddhist, though. McCarthy Oh, she is a Buddhist and you are a Christian? Taketa Yes. McCarthy Does she attend a temple in this area? Taketa Yes, we went to service. You know her father passed away so they have anniversary for . . . You know, the Japanese people do. We went to the Buddhist temple for his deal, you know. ― 4 ―
McCarthy
As a child then, I assume there were a lot of Japanese traditions kept within the home. Taketa Right. Oh, absolutely, because I didn't speak English until I got to school. McCarthy Oh, didn't you? Not until first grade? Taketa Right, right, kindergarten. I didn't speak English. Everything was Japanese because we lived in a Japanese community, sort of. You know, all the neighbors were Japanese and they all spoke Japanese, basically. The older people did. McCarthy I know the Japanese people often changed into Western clothes when they first came. Did you as a child wear any Japanese clothes, or did you mostly wear Western clothes? Your parents too? Taketa No, they wore Western clothes, but on special occasions they wore kimonoes, you know. I remember my sister hated that, but she wore a kimono just to please Mom. They wore kimonoes and we basically wore suits when we dressed up. My mother and my sister used to wear kimonoes and they used to go Bon dancing, and they would get all dressed up in the kimono and the Bon dress, you know. McCarthy Tell me about that. I don't know. Taketa Well, you ought to go to the Bon Society in Anaheim. You know that Buddhist Church. They have a Bon Odori. They dance. It is a Buddhist Festival. They dance and they beat the drums, and it is real pretty. They wear special costumes for that. I'll try to find out the dates for you. 1. The Orange County Buddhist Church, 909 S. Dale St., Anaheim, California, held their Obon celebration on July 21 and 22 in 1973. Ed. McCarthy Oh, that would be interesting. Taketa Yes. McCarthy When you were small and your mother and your sister would go, was this something that happened only once a year? Taketa Once a year. Obon Festival happened once a year, yes. Then there were other occasions they used to get dressed up in real Japanese style. When something happened at the Church--a banquet or something like that--they used to get dressed up. My sister-in-law is a high authority on this flower arrangement, you know, that they go through. Then she plays the koto. You know what that is? McCarthy It is a Japanese stringed musical instrument. Taketa Yes. She plays that. If you really want to get a background there, ― 5 ―
you ought to meet my brother because they are really, really, really Japanese.
McCarthy Oh, really. They still are? Taketa Yes. She was brought up in Japan, whereas Arlene was brought up in Hawaii where it is a little different. They have a lot of Western style. It's all mixed up there. McCarthy Yes. At the time of Pearl Harbor, what do you remember about that? Taketa Yes, well . . . After the bomb fell? McCarthy Yes. Taketa I lived in Delano at that time. My family moved to Delano. Fortunately, we moved to Delano, which is the other side of Bakersfield. It is about thirty-five miles north of Bakersfield. A little community called Delano, California. McCarthy Was your father farming there, or was he teaching? Taketa He was teaching there. He got transferred over there for just a short while. He thought he would go there. Well, he wanted to get out of this area because he knew something . . . Everyone was getting uneasy, so he thought, "Well, we'll go over there." He was eventually going into cabinetmaking anyway because he thought things were getting kind of touchy. He is a terrific cabinetmaker. That is what he fell back on later. When the war ended he was working at the Angeles Cabinetmaking Company. He's a real good cabinetmaker. McCarthy Where did he learn that? Taketa In his childhood. His dad was a cabinetmaker. He used to make something like that piano. He's a really, really fantastic cabinetmaker, so the Angeles Furniture Company . . . You have heard of them, probably. McCarthy Yes. Taketa The old Angeles Furniture Company. He used to be the final guy that checked the furniture over, to be sure, before it went to the store. He just worked from the bottom up. McCarthy After the war? Taketa After the war, yes. He didn't want to get involved in that language school--that bit--anymore. Well, going back to that other question . . . The people that we really had problems with were the Filipinos there. I still remember ― 6 ―
that. We were scared to death of the Filipinos. They were really harassing us. Of course, the Philippine Islands got involved,
and in Delano there were a lot of grape pickers that were Filipinos, so we were really scared. They were throwing things at
us and everything. And then when they quieted down a little bit, the funny part about it is I remember my Chinese friend and
my Korean friend used to wear a great big badge saying, "I am Chinese" and "I'm Korean." I still remember that because all
my Chinese friends used to wear badges to school saying--real big, fill half their chest--saying, "I'm Chinese" or "I'm Korean."
Isn't that strange?
McCarthy That was before you left? Taketa Yes, before we left. Right after the war they started wearing the badges around trying to identify themselves that they were not Japanese. And then the thing that really sticks out in my mind is when they started knocking on doors. Early in the morning the FBI came by the house. McCarthy In the middle of the night? Taketa It was early, early in the morning, about 5 o'clock, and we heard that they were collecting just the fathers. I remember someone knocked on the door and my big brother answered the door, and my mother was going into hysterics. They thought, "Oh, Dad's going to go." We all thought, "Well, he's had it now." Then, I don't know why they left my dad alone, but they said, "Where does Mr. Sasaki live?" We answered, "He lives next door." They went to him, and they threw him out of the house and threw him on the truck. I still remember that. McCarthy They didn't take your father? Taketa No, no. McCarthy Do you know if Mr. Sasaki was some kind of a leader in the community? Taketa No. My father's feeling on this is that they got hold of books. The FBI got hold of books. And the people that donated to certain societies like the Japanese . . . contributing to the Japanese Government and all this bit. I think he feels that everyone was rounded up from that. My father had an insight, I guess, or something. He never did contribute to those things. McCarthy I know some of the people who were involved with Japanese schools were picked up, at least for questioning. Taketa Right, right. My dad never was picked up--never was ever questioned. McCarthy That was fortunate. Taketa Yes, because Mom was just going out of her mind. She was just ― 7 ―
hysterical. My father thinks in the small town of Delano that these people that contributed to certain societies--oh, there
were Japanese societies for this and that--for the Japanese Government and they were contributing heavy into that. There were
a lot of rich farmers there. They were all picked up. I would say eighty-five percent of the men of that community were picked
up.
McCarthy Oh, really? Taketa Just the fathers. The FBI were just like Gestapo. I still can't believe it. They just yanked the guy out and threw him in the truck and took off. McCarthy This was before March? Were there notices already put up for evacuation or was this immediately, just as soon as . . . Taketa No, they hit us real hard. McCarthy Just right away? Taketa Just cold. Yes, they just hit us right away. They identified themselves. I still remember that man standing in the doorway saying, "I'm FBI." I look back now and I see these movies on Gestapo, how they used to pick up people, just yank the mother or father right out of the house. It kind of reminds me of that, and I tell people there is no difference between that and what they did to us. McCarthy No, very similar. Taketa Similar, yes, yes. McCarthy You don't know anyone personally that was detained for a long time, or you didn't know what happened to these people in the community? Taketa Yes, they were brought down to the sheriff's office or county jail--something like that, from what I hear. Now I am just saying this off the cuff, because, you know, I was just a child then, and my mom was telling me about it. Then from there, a lot of them went to Santa Anita Racetrack. They cleaned it . . . Of course, you probably read that in a book. They detained them there, and then some of them went to the camp directly from there. Now some of them rejoined their families there and some didn't. They uprooted the family and some of them later went to Heart Mountain and some of them went to Poston, Arizona, and so forth and then they rejoined their families there. I know our uncle did, and a lot of our personal friends rejoined their families later. McCarthy Was your uncle put into a sort of detainment camp? Taketa Right, for awhile. McCarthy Some of them were sent to Montana or Crystal City, Texas, I believe. ― 8 ―
Taketa
Right. Right in a camp. McCarthy But it was a special camp for . . . Taketa The hard core? McCarthy "Enemy aliens." Taketa Right. McCarthy Was your uncle sent to one of those? Taketa No, we didn't know anyone. We didn't know anyone that was considered hard core. McCarthy So they were evidently cleared and then allowed to go with their families somewhere else? Taketa Right. They never did come back to the West Coast though. They joined them in the camp. McCarthy So the family had to move on its own? Taketa Yes, yes. I remember a lot of them like that. McCarthy How were you notified that you were to relocate somewhere if you could? Taketa I think a general order came out from the Army--I can still remember that--that if you had a sponsor on the other side of the Rockies, the east side of the Rockies--then if you got that . . . We had to get a written deal from my aunt--it was my father's sister--that they would sponsor us, take us in, and they would watch over us, evidently, or they would take care of us with a house, and our living quarters and so forth, that if they'd do that and they approved of it . . . I remember that my father got the letters all straightened out, and then we shipped it back, and I don't know who he showed it to--some sort of authority--and then he said, "Fine." So we packed all our goods and then we left. McCarthy Was there anything that you had to leave that you . . . Taketa No, it was a real hurry-up deal, too. That was another one. We had to all leave at the same time. They gave us a deadline. McCarthy Was this in March? Taketa I can't recall. I honestly can't. I forgot the month. It was a hurry-up deal. You had to get out. "We'll give you four days to get out." That was it. I remember that because my mom--after all those days of saving--she finally got a refrigerator and a stove. She had it for four months, and she sold both of them for one ― 9 ―
hundred dollars. It was real cheap; she almost gave it away. People had given stuff away, you know. It was either give it
away or have it stolen, and if you could get a nickel or a dime out of it, you did. That was that situation.
McCarthy Do you know if they sold those to Caucasians? Taketa Caucasians, Mexicans, right. Just like a yard sale now. We put it all outside and whoever wanted the stuff came by and picked it up. A garage sale, I guess you would call it. McCarthy How does it happen that you had an aunt in Colorado? Taketa She lived there with her husband ever since she came to America. McCarthy Did she come over with her husband? Taketa Yes. I forgot to tell you that. I think it was in the 1930s that my father and a bunch of fellows went there to farm. McCarthy In Colorado? Taketa Colorado, yes. They had a buddy that was farming there, so he went back to help him or something. He went back to Fort Lupton, Colorado. He wasn't too hot on it. He liked California weather a lot better so he came back. He stayed there for about two or three years. My aunt and her husband liked it there real well, so she and her husband stayed and kept on farming for year after year. They had one farm. McCarthy What area of Colorado was this? Taketa They were in Greeley, Colorado. McCarthy That's nice and flat. Taketa Yes, real nice. They had a big ranch there and they were farming. McCarthy In Greeley, or around that area, was there any kind of a Japanese community or were there just sprinkled families? Taketa Just sprinkled. I can recall, I would say, there were about ten families in the area we were living in during the war. McCarthy Did any of those include people who had moved in to relocate or were they all people who had been living there? Taketa They had been living there for years. McCarthy Did you have a house, or were you renting a house? Taketa We were renting. What we did there . . . ― 10 ―
McCarthy
First of all, in Delano? Taketa We were renting a house. McCarthy So you just left the house, of course. Taketa Right. McCarthy What was your transportation to Colorado? Taketa In a car. McCarthy Did you encounter any difficulties going across borders, or getting gas? Taketa Gee, I can't really recall that, Mary. I can't give you an honest answer on that. We were scared. I know we were scared to death. But my dad thought, "Well, we'll give it a try." I remember that one time, near Flagstaff or somewhere in Arizona, we had a tough time getting gas. McCarthy People wouldn't sell it to you? Taketa Yes, I remember that. McCarthy But you finally did and you got to Colorado. Taketa Yes, we got to our destination. McCarthy When you got to Colorado, did you live with your aunt on the farm or did you have a separate house? Taketa We lived with her for--oh, I would say about six months. Of course, we got there in March or April, somewhere in there. It was before the heavy season for farming. We helped them for that year with the crop. Then my dad got on his own. He rented. He sharecropped. You know, where you rent the farm, and they furnish all the equipment and you do all the work, and they get a percentage of the harvest. So we rented close to three hundred acres, I think. Yes, and the funny part about it, Mary, is we used German prisoners of war for laborers. (laughter) There was no labor then, you know. During the war everyone was doing other things, making more money. So the family worked, my mom and everybody. Then for the mass labor, picking up potatoes and tomatoes and stuff--we did strictly vegetable farming, which is tough--we used German laborers, prisoners of war. McCarthy Where were the prisoners located? Taketa They were located right outside of Greeley. They had a camp there for them. McCarthy Did the government transport them in? ― 11 ―
Taketa
Yes, the government, the Army trucks, brought them in. They had a guard, which just sort of sat around the field and watched them. But they worked like the dickens for us. McCarthy Did they? (laughter) Taketa Yes, we told them we were buddies. (laughter) McCarthy That's right! (laughter) There was a Japanese-American camp in Colorado. Taketa Colorado. That's where my uncle was. McCarthy Where was he picked up? Taketa In Los Angeles. McCarthy He had been living in Los Angeles? Taketa Right. McCarthy That was another brother of your father's, or your mother's? Taketa My mother's relative. My mother's brother, he would be. McCarthy Do you know if you had any correspondence with him during the time he was in the camp? Taketa We went to visit him after they opened the camp up, about three years or two years after. I remember we used to go visit them least twice a year at the camp. McCarthy Do you remember anything from your visits--what you did or what went on? Taketa Yes, the first time we went there--I still remember when I was a kid--I just couldn't believe it. It was just like a prison camp. They had barbed wire, or course, at the top. They had posts in the corners with soldiers in it with guns there, you know. You had to get cleared by the front office to go in. It was just like a prison. It was just like a prison. Of course, their only boy was in the service. He was in the service even before the war started. He volunteered. They didn't have any children there, so they just had a room. It was just like an army barracks, and they put walls in it. I still remember that. They just had a little tiny hole there. We used to go visit them all the time. McCarthy How old were they at the time? Taketa Oh, they were in their early fifties. ― 12 ―
McCarthy
Do you know what their feelings were in view of the fact that they were in this hole? Taketa Bitter, very bitter. McCarthy And they had a son that . . . Taketa Yes, who eventually died in the war. McCarthy Did he really? Taketa Yes, on D-Day he died. Arlene's brothers died on D-Day, too. So they were really bitter. Of course, his being the only son too, they never did get over that too well. They both passed away recently--not recently, three years ago, I guess. They never did get over that too well, for which I don't blame them. McCarthy Do you know if they, themselves, had signed the loyalty oath you were required to sign in a camp? Taketa I don't know. There was a lot of that going on whereby a lot of them renounced their citizenship. A lot of them. They were put into a special camp after that, because some of them were getting so bitter about the whole thing, where their sons were going into the service and getting killed and still they were cooped up. They just didn't think that was fair. So they just said, "The heck with it." They renounced their citizenship. McCarthy So some of them changed while they were in the camps? Taketa Right, right. McCarthy Later. Taketa Right, right, and they took those as special people. McCarthy Did you know any of them? Taketa I heard about a few of my father's friends. My dad was saying that they renounced their citizenship. McCarthy Then they were probably sent to Tule Lake? Taketa Yes, Tule Lake. Then they were shipped over. McCarthy Oh, deported. Taketa Yes, they were deported. McCarthy Then they never came back. Taketa Some of them never came back. Still bitter, I guess. ― 13 ―
I'm not bitter about the whole situation, to be honest with you. It's something that happened. It's in the past now, so why be that bitter about it? But I thought it was an awful injustice. I just talked with my neighbors the other night about the fact that you were coming over, and we were discussing this and how they felt. Well, I look at it this way: You know, where it happened-- Pearl Harbor--where the actual bomb dropped, the United States Government didn't do a thing to Japanese there. Arlene said they didn't even touch them or say anything. The Japanese kept on going to school, and they were having good times, going to the beach and so forth. But here, where the bomb didn't drop or anything, they put the fear of God into everyone that we were going to sabotage everything and all this baloney. And then, I think, this is the way the government . . . It was an excuse for them. They gave you people the fear of God that we were going to do something like this. Then I know for a fact--now, I don't know for fact, but from things that I've read and heard--it was a political move, too, to get all the Japanese farms and all the Japanese property here in Southern California, especially around Delano. All these guys that came out from the Dust Bowl, you know, in those Depression days, were just waiting to pounce on those things. And they did. They did. I think it was political and the fear that people put into these people around here that we were going to do something terrible. Then they had the whole community to back them up. But they weren't doing anything wrong; they were doing it to protect you people. (This last sentence is said with tongue in cheek.) McCarthy Do you know if your father resisted or anything? Taketa Oh, no. McCarthy How did he feel? Do you know? Was he mainly frightened? Taketa In what way? McCarthy I guess when you had to leave there was no way to stand up to any of this. Taketa Oh, yes. Japanese people aren't that way. That's the problem. They are quiet and they do as they are told, especially in those days. Now the Sansei that are coming up about high school age and so forth are getting so that they are a little militant too. But in the old days the Japanese did what they were told, especially what the government told them. I can just see them bowing. "This is what the great godfather is going to say, so you bow and do it." There wasn't any resistance at all. I can't recall any. This is the thing. People higher up say, "Sell all your goods and get out." But they were scared. I know they were scared. McCarthy At the time of the Pearl Harbor incident, the Japanese population of the Hawaiian Islands was--what?--about forty percent of the total population, or so? ― 14 ―
Taketa
Oh, more. McCarthy They were a more powerful group in Hawaii than they were in the United States. People weren't going to push them as much, maybe. Taketa No, I don't believe that, really. I think that if they thought the Japanese were going to do something like that, even in Hawaii, they could have locked them up too. They could have brought them over here and locked them up in various camps here, although Arlene did say that these people that were considered leaders and were heavily involved in foreign affairs with Japan and so forth--they picked up a few in Honolulu, she said. One of her uncles was picked up. He was involved in some sort of a Japanese daily newspaper. Just the Japanese. McCarthy Language? Taketa Language, just the Japanese language newspaper. He was picked up. One of her uncles that was teaching part-time--just teaching the kids how to speak Japanese and so forth--he was picked up. So there were a few there who were picked up. They could have done that here. They could have done that here. McCarthy Were her uncles released? Taketa Yes, they were released. There was one that she said came to Arkansas, or something like that. McCarthy There was a camp in Arkansas. Taketa Yes, a camp in Arkansas. McCarthy He was sent there from Hawaii? Taketa Yes, that's what she told me. He was in Arkansas. I met him about ten years ago. We were talking just about like you and I are right now. He was telling me his experiences. McCarthy Is there anything you would like to relate that he told you? Taketa Well, nothing really. He was asking me the same thing. Why it happened in America where they uprooted everyone. So I related the same thing that I did to you. I thought it was a political move. McCarthy Did Arlene's brothers volunteer or were they drafted? Taketa They were drafted. One wanted to volunteer. She was just telling me this the other night. The one wanted to volunteer even before the war started, but her parents wouldn't have anything to do with it. They wanted him to get an education first and then he was eventually drafted. Both of them were drafted. ― 15 ―
McCarthy
Did they serve in the 442nd Battalion? Taketa Yes. McCarthy And they were both . . . Taketa Killed. McCarthy How many were there? Taketa Well, now, let's see. There were one, two, three, four in the service. McCarthy Four of her brothers? Taketa Four of her brothers. One was killed. Two were killed, I think. Then there are two. There is one now that's a career soldier. He's still in. McCarthy What has Arlene said? How does this affect . . . Taketa Well, I'll tell you something funny, Mary. When she first came over here we were going to buy a house in Anaheim right there by Western High School because that was my first assignment, and we were going to buy a Cinderella home right there on the other side of Beach Boulevard. Well, the funny part about it is, for some reason or another . . . I don't know whether you remember that Dr. Lee, remember he was having so much trouble buying a house? McCarthy Dr. Sammy Lee? Taketa Sammy Lee, yes. Well this is about the time we went to look for a house over there. My gosh, I knew they didn't want to sell to us, you know, at that time. It's different now. They didn't want to sell to us, so Arlene said, "Well, gee, what's the matter?" I knew the guy didn't want to sell, so I told her, "Let's get going. The guy doesn't want to sell to us." She couldn't reason why. I told her, "He just doesn't want to sell to Orientals. That's all there is to it." She just blew her stack! McCarthy Did she blow it at him? Taketa Yes! She said, "Guy, if my brothers are good enough to get killed in the service, and if I'm good enough to teach your kids, I don't see why I'm not good enough to live here!" And she went on and on. She's not used to prejudice like I am. You know, Hawaii never did have any. McCarthy That would make a difference in the reaction. Taketa That's why the Hawaiians all volunteered. The 442nd originally was made up all of Hawaiians. You know that senator from Hawaii, ― 16 ―
Daniel Inouye, you see in the Watergate Hearings now? Well, he lost his arm in the 442nd. It's a funny thing about it, like
Arlene says, "It's the most decorated outfit in the United States Army, and all this, and still you come out and face this."
But it has improved a heck of a lot. I have no gripes now, excepting sometimes people still hold a grudge and it's a personal
thing. But I think society in general has changed. We have it a lot better off than the colored people or the Chicanos or
anything else.
McCarthy Right now? Taketa Right now. McCarthy After the war, how long did you stay in Colorado before you came back to California? Taketa We came back in the early part of 1946. The war was over in 1945, wasn't it? Yes, we came back in 1946. McCarthy Was there some reason your father wanted to resettle back in California or some reason he didn't want to stay in Colorado? Taketa A lot of people came back. Our friends came back. They were all gardeners, you know, and they wrote back to the people in camp and said, "Things aren't as bad as they were before we left, but it's hard getting a job." You know, Japanese gardeners are sort of a trademark in Southern California, and they had old customers. These people were gardening for ages, you know. People were glad to see them back and so forth. And they wrote back to us and said, "It isn't bad." It was tough to get a job if you were not in that sort of trade--gardeners or produce business, and so forth. My dad got a job. He had a tough time finding a job because he wanted to go into cabinetmaking. He did a lot of odd jobs. He was busing dishes for a while. For a man of forty-six or forty-seven that's a tough job. Then he finally got a cabinet job. He didn't do that very long. He just did it to get going. He got a job as a cabinetmaker at Angeles and stayed with them until he retired. He stayed with them a good twenty-odd years. He was the touch-up man. He was the final man before it went out. He worked from the bottom up, though. He was a sander. He started out way down the step. He came all the way up before he retired. McCarthy Where did you first resettle? Taketa We settled in East Los Angeles. McCarthy Was it near where you had lived before? Taketa No, I would say about ten or fifteen miles away. We lived on Vermont before, and we settled in East Los Angeles which is about ten miles distant. ― 17 ―
McCarthy
Was this a mixed neighborhood, or was it a Japanese community again? Taketa It was a Japanese, Mexican, Chinese, and a lot of Armenians. Over there in East Los Angeles it was all a mixture of everything. McCarthy Let me backtrack to Colorado. Were you old enough to go to school when you were in Colorado? Taketa Right. McCarthy Did you go into Greeley to school? Taketa No, my sister and brothers did. They went to Greeley High School. I went to a country school. It was a one-room schoolhouse sort of thing. McCarthy Were there other Japanese children in the class? Taketa No, just me. Just me, in fact, Oriental. McCarthy What was your relationship with the teacher? Was there ever any incident in the school? Taketa Yes, we picked it up. I still remember a lot of incidents. McCarthy Tell me some. Taketa Well, it's really hard to pinpoint. You can feel it. Because you're being left out because of your racial background. I just can't say. We thought that . . . I worked in Utah, believe it or not, at that time. My brother and I knew a friend in Utah. When we went to Utah, we worked there for a while on a farm. Boy, we thought Utah was bad! I still feel like that. I don't know why. I mean, when I go through Utah, I feel that way because of my childhood experiences. They used to throw things at us: tomatoes, rocks, etc. And they wouldn't let us on the bus. I don't know why. That was in Utah. McCarthy How old were you then? Was this just for a summer? Taketa That was when I lived in Colorado. Yes, we went there for a visit, to work, at the friend's place. We worked there just one summer for experience and horsed around. McCarthy What area of Utah was that? Taketa It was the other side of Brigham, Utah. McCarthy They were very bad there, huh? Taketa Yes. We thought it was pretty bad. But Greeley wasn't that bad. My dad let us off about two weeks, I think it was. ― 18 ―
McCarthy
How old was your brother or how old were you at that time? Taketa I was in grade school. McCarthy After you came back to California, you must have been in junior high or high school. Taketa I was in high school. That is, I started in tenth grade. McCarthy What school did you go to? Taketa I went to Los Angeles Polytechnic. McCarthy Was it a mixed school? If your neighborhood was mixed, your school presumably was. . . Taketa Mixed. McCarthy So were things difficult? Taketa No. I had a good experience there. McCarthy And then you went to college? Taketa Yes, I went to East Los Angeles Junior College. Then I went to Santa Barbara State College. Then I went into the service when the Korean War started. Then I came out and went to Long Beach State College. McCarthy Did you serve within the United States or were you shipped out during the war? Taketa During the Korean War, I went overseas, but I went the other way. I saw all of Europe. My brother went to Korea. McCarthy Were you drafted? Taketa Uh, yeah! You better believe it! (smiling) McCarthy (laughter) When you graduated from college, were you a teacher? Taketa Yes. McCarthy Did you have any difficulty finding a job? Taketa Well, the only thing I heard was from Dr. Warner at Long Beach State. He got to be a personal friend of mine, because he was a kendo expert. We used to talk about that. He was highly thought of at Long Beach State. He said, "The only place you're not going to find a job is Huntington Beach. They won't hire minorities." But evidently that barrier went down because my close friend got a job there as a coach and he's Japanese. ― 19 ―
McCarthy
Recently? Taketa Right! I would say about five years ago. So they let their barriers down, too. But at the time I graduated in 1955, Dr. Warner had stated that the only place they wouldn't hire minorities was Huntington Beach School District. McCarthy Well, you were hired then, at the . . . Taketa Anaheim School District. I've been there ever since. McCarthy What is your position now? Taketa Assistant Principal, Loara High School, Anaheim Union High School District. McCarthy In your general life, have you encountered any racial problems, say with students or co-workers? Taketa Oh, no. Well, you really can't put a finger on it, Mary, but you feel it. You feel it. I can't explain it to you. It's something that we know. You can tell by the actions of people and how they speak that they are prejudiced. Of course, we all are, I think, to a certain extent. But it comes out. My boy is encountering that at school now. McCarthy How are you handling that? Taketa Well, you know, I just tell him this is going to be part of your life. I'm trying to tell him, "Just bear with it." It's hard for him because he was not brought up like we were brought up. Before the war in California I thought it was pretty bad. We felt it! McCarthy Much more than after the war, then. Taketa Right! I mean, now it's a dream. My dad and I both talk about it. Once in a while we reminisce about the good old days. I still remember a lot of these kids that went to college, Japanese boys and girls--especially it was mainly boys that went to college at that time, the old trait that boys come first, you know. We knew a lot of kids that got engineering degrees that didn't get a job. They were gardeners or they worked in produce. They just couldn't get a job, and they said California was really bad for that. McCarthy Most of them seemed to be employed in some aspect of agriculture or allied field. Taketa Agriculture, market, you know, produce, or something like that. A close friend of ours got a degree at UCLA in engineering. He ended up working for his dad in produce. He just couldn't get a job. He was a sharp kid, too. Now, you know--God!--they are all over. ― 20 ―
McCarthy
I heard some complaints that although Japanese Americans are hired into firms now that they aren't put into high management positions. Do you know anyone that has encountered that? Taketa No. McCarthy I think a doctor at either Berkeley or Stanford has been going into that. Taketa Is that right? McCarthy That is what Mr. C. . . Taketa Bill Chew? McCarthy Mr. Chew was telling me. Taketa Is that right? McCarthy That someone is doing a doctoral study on that. Taketa Well, I'll be darned! That's interesting. McCarthy You mentioned that you belonged to the JACL. Taketa Oh, I'm not an active member anymore since I have lived out here. When you are in Los Angeles, in the community, you get involved with a lot of this stuff, you know, like the Judo Society, the Kendo, like my dad belonged to, and the JACL. But I don't belong to it anymore. I don't even subscribe to the Japanese language newspaper anymore. (laughter) McCarthy Do you teach your children Japanese? Taketa No, I'm trying to get them go to to Japanese language school, but Rian says it cuts out on his fishing time. They don't have the after-school ones now. McCarthy They have language school on Saturdays? Taketa Yes, Saturdays. My dad wants him to learn because I still converse just strictly in Japanese with my parents. McCarthy Oh, they both speak Japanese in the home? Taketa Right, right. Rian doesn't know what's going on and neither does my daughter Cary. But I say that's good because Arlene speaks Japanese pretty well. So whenever we want to talk about things we don't want the kids to hear, we speak Japanese. McCarthy That makes it convenient. Taketa Yes. (laughter) ― 21 ―
McCarthy
Is there anything that you would like to add or anything that you want to say? Taketa Well, this sounds like sour apples, but when we talk among our own group on this subject, we always bring up the point that in California they rounded up all the Japanese. What happened to all the Germans and Italians? McCarthy That's a question. Taketa Really. I'm really bitter about that and the rest of my cohorts are, too. You know, they were involved in this thing just as much as we were, and they were active. They had German leagues here and Italian leagues and everything else, and maybe more so than we were involved, you know, the Japanese. Our answer there is, if you hauled them all in and hauled all the Italians in, there would be a chaotic condition in this country. But we were the quiet minority, shall we say, and we are spotted by black hair and slant eyes. They knew there was only a few of us, so they thought, "Well, we'll make a good example of these people." They hauled us away. I think all the Japanese people that went through this are still asking the same questions. I mean, we do all the time. Then another question is, why weren't the Japanese in Hawaii ever hauled in? The Nisei that went through this in California and the United States always ask this question. We bring it up once in a while, among us, over a cup of tea, once in a while, "What happened there?" And I think it's a real injustice! I think we feel the American Government knows they made a terrific mistake. After we got back they said, "Try to write down all the things that you lost." You know, household items and so forth. Of course, personal things you can never replace. My mother got token money back for all the stuff that she lost, like the refrigerator, stove, and so forth. After the war, you know, the price changed so much but still they awarded peons, like us, that didn't have too much. But the big landowners and big business owners never got their money back. You know, it ran into millions of dollars. McCarthy I know. Taketa But I thought the gesture was good. They knew they made a mistake and were trying to pay back some of the smaller people. McCarthy Do you think if something like that had come up today, or if it did, the present generation would . . . Taketa Rebel? Oh, absolutely! Absolutely, I think they would, because I see a terrific change in Japanese kids. Oh, man! I mean, I don't see the humble, quiet kids anymore. They come up like the rest of the Caucasian kids. They rebel. You see that in Japanese Town. No more bowing of heads. They are getting away from the old culture. I still have a lot of it because I was brought up that way, but the Nisei parents are breaking it off. You know even ― 22 ―
juvenile delinquency is going up within the Japanese Community, which was never heard of before. You hear of divorce among
Japanese, which you never heard of.
McCarthy I know that the young Japanese Americans that have gone into the so-called New Left are somewhat critical of the Nisei. I guess that is not just strictly Japanese children, for other children are critical of their parents too, but it is sometimes stated that the Nisei want to maintain too low a profile. Taketa I'll have to agree there. Also I think the closeness in family has broken up too. Everything was family image and the closeness in the family. That has broken up too. That is what really hurt us, I think, in the Japanese family. Also you don't hear of the man as in charge of the family. You don't hear that anymore. You hear about the Nisei; they are Westernized. The wife has a lot to say too, you know. In the olden days, I know, my mom didn't have a word to say. It was one way--Dad's way. That has broken off, too, in the Nisei family. You sort of Westernize. I'm just like one of you, you know. Arlene has a lot to say and we listen. McCarthy And she works. Taketa She works, sure. I will tell you my personal feeling, in why we are where we are at, is that the Oriental, especially amongst Japanese--as I say they are the "quiet minority"--and I think the big influence that we had was the 442nd. I really do. I mean nobody had a kick back. We did our part in the war, and we had more odds against us. They locked us up. Still the boys volunteered, and they had a good record in the service. One of the best ones in the United States Army, you know. I think that helped us. Personally, I feel that is about eighty-five percent of why we are where we are. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. McCarthy I certainly thank you very much for all of your information and your interest in this research project. Taketa Surely. |