|
― 1 ―
Interview
This is an interview with Henry Kanegae for the California State College, Fullerton, Japanese American Oral History Project, by Richard Curtiss at 1801 Buttonshell Lane, Newport Beach, California, on February 12, 1966. What is your full name, Mr. Kanegae? Kanegae Henry Kanegae is my complete name. Curtiss Where were you born? Kanegae In the Fountain Valley area. Curtiss Have you lived all your life in that area? Kanegae Well, not in that particular spot, but I've lived in the western part of Orange County all my life. Curtiss Have you folks lived in that general area? Kanegae Yes. Curtiss Were they born in the United States? Kanegae No, both of my parents were born in Japan. Curtiss Were they naturalized citizens? Kanegae They are now, yes. Curtiss At the time of relocation, though, they were not? Kanegae No, until 1952 they, like all first-generation Japanese [Issei], were ― 2 ―
classified as aliens ineligible for United States citizenship.
Curtiss How old are you now? Kanegae I'm forty-eight. Curtiss How old were you at the time of relocation? Kanegae About twenty-five. Curtiss When were you evacuated? When were you told or notified to leave your home? Kanegae We left in May 1942, and approximately a month or so before that we were notified. Curtiss Where were you told to go? Kanegae We left from the Huntington Beach Pacific Electric station, but we left on a bus. It was a PE bus. Curtiss What did they give you at Huntington Beach, as far as food, supplies, or anything is concerned? Did they give you anything at all? Kanegae No, the government did not, but there was a group of--I believe they were Baptist--ladies who were from the western portion of the county that had coffee and donuts for us. And after I arrived at camp, I wrote them a letter thanking them for it. Curtiss I see. And in the way of relatives, who else in the family, besides yourself, was involved in relocation? Kanegae Well, both of my parents, my sister and her family, and my wife and two small daughters. Curtiss What was the name of the camp they took you to? Kanegae Poston One. Curtiss How long did it take you to get there on the bus? Kanegae It took most of the day. Curtiss How were the accomodations when you got there? Kanegae Very poor. It was not quite finished, and conditions were very bad. Curtiss Previously how had you been notified that you had to go to Huntington Beach? Kanegae Well, naturally, they had us all registered, and so forth. And there were bulletins and newspaper articles. ― 3 ―
Curtiss
I see. Do you know the gentleman who ran the local--not General DeWitt, but the man who ran the local Orange County evacuation? Kanegae No the particular person who was in charge of it, but it was handled by the State Employment Service in Santa Ana. And there was one particular individual that I know of who was the head man. I forget his name. Curtiss When you arrived in Poston One, was there more than one camp? Kanegae Yes, there was One, Two, and Three. Curtiss I see. And were all the people from Orange County directed to One? Kanegae Yes. Curtiss Or would they go from one to the other when it would fill up? Kanegae Oh, we all went to One first. I'm just trying to think of the total population. I think there were between eighteen and twenty thousand people in Poston One. Curtiss Were there any physical examinations or forms that you had to fill out before leaving Huntington Beach? Kanegae I think all the forms were filled out prior to leaving the station. Curtiss Did you have any physical examinations? Kanegae No. Curtiss Did you have any physical examination upon arriving at Poston? Kanegae No. Curtiss Was there any physical examination that took place at anytime? Kanegae No. Curtiss What about the people locally. How did they feel about going? Kanegae What do you mean? The Japanese people? Curtiss Yes, your neighbors, and so on? Kanegae Naturally, none of us wanted to go. It was our home. We were born and raised here. We felt there was really no reason for us to be forced to go, except for the fact that the government felt that we should. ― 4 ―
Curtiss
Was there any kind of discrimination between the time of Pearl Harbor and the time that they asked you to leave your homes? Kanegae Well, up to that period of time, all of our lives, we've always faced a certain amount of discrimination. Individually some of us met severe discrimination; others didn't. But between the time the war started and the time we left, there was no real particular discrimination, except for some small, isolated cases where some individual was abusive and so forth, but nothing real noticeable or unusual. Of course, we were restricted in movement, and so forth, by the government, which we as American citizens felt was absolutely wrong. Curtiss Did you own any real property at all? Kanegae Yes. We had twenty-five acres. Curtiss And what became of this upon relocation? Kanegae We had twenty-five acres, and we had another twenty acres, so we had about forty-five acres all total. We leased it out in a proper legal lease. Curtiss What was involved in leasing it out? Did it have to go through the government or through a bank? Kanegae No. Curtiss No special agency? Kanegae No. I think the government asked to check it over, and I think so did the local--you know, the local representative of the War Relocation Authority [WRA]. The reason for that, I guess, was to make sure that there was no unfair lease made out. Curtiss Who took the lease? I mean, was it advertised in the newspaper, or was it taken by a friend? Kanegae No, it was arranged through personal contacts. Curtiss I see. Then can I assume it was a friend that leased your land? Kanegae Well, one of them . . . I had two different properties under two different leases. One was a company, whose executives I knew, and the other one was an individual who was a friend of another friend of mine, so it was a mutual friend. Curtiss Were there any legal problems involved? Kanegae No. Curtiss In California, you said there was a degree of discrimination, but ― 5 ―
not very much. What did your neighbors think? Did they voice any opinion?
Kanegae My immediate neighbors were naturally concerned--my friends. They felt that things were not going the way they should. They were concerned for our welfare. They felt that it probably wasn't right. Frankly, during those periods of the early part of the war, both the Japanese people and the Caucasian people didn't fraternize too much, you know. Close friends were the only ones we ever had contacts with. Curtiss What about taking products with you, like clothing, food, and money. Were there any regulations governing this? Kanegae They limited us very severely in the amount of things that we could carry and a few things that we could put on a truck. Curtiss Before you were shipped from Huntington Beach, or before you ever went to Huntington Beach, was there any notification by the government that you could leave voluntarily and go east? Kanegae Well, I can't recall exactly how far ahead, or what date or anything, but there was a period of time that they said, "If you want to relocate voluntarily, you can." And then after a certain date, it was closed. Curtiss And what were the boundaries of the area that you were not allowed to come into? Was it just the state of California? Kanegae Originally, there was Zone One and Zone Two. Zone Two covered the part of California including the area we could go to, but that was closed up a little later, so actually, if a person seriously wanted to relocate, he had to go further inland. Curtiss Were you able to take money? Kanegae Oh, we just left it in the bank. Curtiss But you just took, then, spending money--pocket money. Kanegae We took a few dollars. I forget how much it was. Curtiss But you left the bulk of it in the bank? Kanegae Oh yes, it was the only place we could leave it. Curtiss How much advance notice did you say that they gave you? Did they give you a reasonable length of time, do you feel? Kanegae Well, actually, it was a known fact that we would have to evacuate for a month or so prior to evacuation. That has been almost twenty-five years ago, and it's hard to remember how much time we had. But we had a week or ten days after the exact date was known. ― 6 ―
Curtiss
Now, when you arrived at Poston One, were the buildings pre-fabricated or were they like old army barracks? Kanegae Well, the construction was not in the true sense of pre-fab, but I think it was fabricated in ten foot sections and then put up. It was a two by four frame with a one by six, and one by twelve foot boards, and then covered with a black tar paper material on the outside. Which, incidentally, is a very good heat absorber. Curtiss What about some of the facilities that they had, such as educational. What did they have for the children? Kanegae At first, you might say, none of that was in existence. It came later on. Curtiss Who ran the schools? Kanegae Well, Poston was in the Department of the Interior, Indian Department, a territory on the Indian reservation, so all the administrative and all the educational facilities, medical facilities, and so forth, were administered by the Indian Service. But the majority of the schoolteachers--there were some outside teachers, Caucasian teachers--were only partially qualified, Japanese people. Curtiss So they did have some of the people that were in relocation camps that taught in their own schools? Kanegae Yes. Curtiss What about grades? Did they go to elementary, high school and college? Kanegae Well, no college, but high school. Curtiss They had all the way to the twelfth grade? Kanegae Yes. It wasn't ready from the very first, though. That came along as time went on. Curtiss Were there any comments about the education? Did the people feel that it-was the kind of education their children could have received on the outside? Kanegae Well, frankly, a lot of the instructors were not fully qualified. They were not accredited, so naturally the type of education that these kids were getting was not quite adequate. My kids were too small to go to school, so I wasn't directly concerned or involved, but that's the way it was. Curtiss Did you know whether or not the academic units or the knowledge acquired while in the camp was applied to the total education of the individual when he or she was released? Or did they regard this as ― 7 ―
a lack of education? Did they have to just start from the beginning over again?
Kanegae I cannot answer that very properly. I never had occasion to inquire about that. But the fellows that did go on to higher education, the individuals who really had ambition, I think they applied themselves a little bit more than normally while they were in camp school. They probably had some problem, but it wasn't enough to stop them from going on ahead. Curtiss I imagine the hospitals came along with the education. After a period of time, then, they got the hospital. Were the facilities of the hospital adequate? Kanegae At first they were very inadequate, but gradually as it was staffed by medical people from the camp it became better; major surgery and stuff they had to take elsewhere. But minor things they could do there. Curtiss Were doctors mostly from the outside, or were they internees? Kanegae Well, the directors of the medical facilities were outside people. I believe they were Indian reservation people, and all the others were Japanese doctors who were in the camp, and most of them were very capable. Curtiss What about religious facilities, as far as churches go? Kanegae There were churches there. Protestant churches, and I'm not sure about the Catholic church, but I know there were several different Protestant churches going on, and naturally Buddhist people going, too. Curtiss Was there ever any problem, though, of getting the kind of church or religion that you wanted? Kanegae No. Naturally, we wouldn't have the normal church functions as on the outside. It was not similar. It was not identical to ours. It was strictly the religious part. Curtiss Were the ministers from the outside or from the Indian reservation? Kanegae No, mostly Japanese ministers. Curtiss I see. And how long were you in Poston One? Kanegae Well, we went in during May 1942, and I left about nine months later. Curtiss Why were you allowed to leave so early? This was still in 1942, then, wasn't it? Kanegae No, it was in 1943 when I left. ― 8 ―
Curtiss
Of course, and the war was not over until 1945. Why were you allowed to leave? Kanegae Well, the WRA had a program of relocation by that time. Curtiss So you chose to leave the camp and to go to one of the eastern states? Kanegae Yes. Curtiss Further away from California. Kanegae That's right. Curtiss What in the way of recreation did you have in the camp? Kanegae After the camp got settled, there were sports--you know, baseball and basketball. We had a library. They got motion pictures periodically, and that's about the extent of it. Curtiss Did they have swimming? Kanegae We cleaned up the canal around our camp and swam there. But as far as swimming pools and things like that, there were none. Curtiss How close were you to the Colorado River? Kanegae Oh, I would judge it was about eight or ten miles from Poston One. Curtiss Were you allowed to go there? Kanegae It was still on the Indian reservation. I know the fellows did go there, but they had to walk. So it wasn't used very much. Some fellows did go. Curtiss In the way of a trade inside the camp, were there carpenters, plumbers, painters, and so on? Kanegae There were three classes of people: the laboring people who received twelved dollars; the semi-skilled got sixteen and the professionals got nineteen dollars a month. They had programs of farming, carpentry, plumbing, poultry, mechanics, and this and that. So you might say that, for example, the fellows who wanted to learn mechanics applied for a job in a garage. So there was really no school, trade, or vocational guidance, but they picked up skills themselves on the job. Curtiss So was there a possibility while in the camp of going from a twelve dollar to a sixteen dollar salary? Kanegae Not very likely. Curtiss I see. ― 9 ―
Kanegae
That was not weekly, that was monthly wages. Curtiss Twelve dollars a month? Kanegae Yes. Curtiss Were the trades based on what your occupation was before entering the camp? Kanegae Not necessarily. Curtiss Did they go through a processing to see what you could do while in the camp? Kanegae I was in the employment office; I was one of the executives in the department, and I did all the job placements, and so forth. When the fellows came in, we interviewed them, put down their background and asked them what they liked to do. Naturally, we knew that everyone couldn't do what they wanted to do or what they were trained to do, but we tried to place them in a job that would be satisfactory to them and also give them a chance to learn something else. But frankly, they didn't have a real opportunity to learn a trade, although some of them did, you know. Curtiss With your position in the employment office, what kind of pay rate did they give you? Kanegae Oh, I was in the top executive pay. Curtiss Then that was a nineteen . . . Kanegae A nineteen dollar deal. Curtiss I see. Now, in describing the rooms where you lived, could you be a little more descriptive? Exactly how large were the rooms? Kanegae Well, generally the building was about twenty to twenty-two feet wide, and the two end barracks . . . It's a long barrack. The two end rooms were probably larger than the one in between, so I would say those on the ends were around twenty feet square, and the one in between was probably sixteen to eighteen feet square. Curtiss And what did you have? Kanegae We had the larger one. Curtiss As far as privacy goes, what divided the barracks into rooms? Kanegae Oh, they had walls of one inch thick material. They used very green lumber when they built that, and that is a very dry country. Some of the lumber shrank as much as three-quarter inches, so the space between was of quarter inch, half inch, or three-quarter inch space. ― 10 ―
Curtiss
What were you furnished with in the room itself, as far as furniture and so on? Kanegae Well, some of us had iron cots, others had canvas cots. We had a cotton ticking to put straw into for a mattress and nothing else. Curtiss Were you allowed to bring anything with you or send for anything when you were in there? Kanegae Well, very few people brought furniture. What we did was, we picked up scrap lumber from the construction dumps and made our chairs and tables and whatnot. Curtiss When you entered the camp, it was rather difficult, but was there any thought that, perhaps, this was where you were going to spend the rest of your life? Kanegae I don't think very many of us thought that this would be permanent. If we did, we would have probably refused to go. Curtiss Was there any thought of just how long you might end up in this camp? Kanegae Really, there was no idea. We all knew that it would probably be for the duration of the war, and that was about the extent of it. Actually, things were in a very confused state. I don't think the government people knew exactly what they had in their minds either. Curtiss When the WRA came up with the program in 1943 of the resettlement to the east and you chose to go, where did you go? Kanegae I went to Albuquerque, New Mexico. Curtiss Why did you go there? Kanegae Well, that was the closest to my home that I could get away to, and I felt that climatically it is not as severe as further east. I've always had the interest in aviation, and this letter--being in my position as an employment agency man, I saw this letter where this fellow who had the farm was also in the aviation business. And I thought, "My gosh, that's where I want to go." Curtiss As far as taking care of your personal needs while you and your family were in the camp, what kind of facilities were offered--bathrooms and so on? Kanegae Well, there was a central shower room, toilet and shower room, and a central laundry. Curtiss Was it run on the same principle as, let's say, the high school gym, where all the fellows are in one area and all the girls in another, or was it divided into family rooms? ― 11 ―
Kanegae
No, it was just a big shower room for the men and a big shower room for the girls. Curtiss It wasn't co-ed. Kanegae No. Curtiss How did you get additional clothing? You obviously could not bring enough to last. Kanegae We bought them. Curtiss How did you do this? Kanegae Eventually, they had a store. They called it Community Enterprise Store, and things that we couldn't buy there we ordered from the outside. Curtiss Did it take long? Kanegae Not too bad, ten days to two weeks. Curtiss Were there any increases in prices because of your situation? Kanegae No, we just bought from a Sears Roebuck or a Montgomery Ward catalog, and looked up the price. Curtiss What became of the clothes that you had at home before going to Poston One? Kanegae Well, some people stored it, and some threw it away, depending on the condition. Curtiss What did you do? Kanegae We stored what we couldn't take. Curtiss Was there an expense involved in storage? Kanegae It was at my own place, so we just left it in the garage. Curtiss Did the government reimburse you at all for any of the expense, such as storage and so on? Kanegae No. Eventually, when we had the so-called evacuation claims, some of those expenses were allowed to be computed in our total count of losses. Curtiss So this came in income tax deductions? Kanegae Eventually, yes. ― 12 ―
Curtiss
When was this? Kanegae After the evacuation was all over. Curtiss I mean, was this for the first year that you were out that they allowed you to apply this? Kanegae No, it took several years. It took years. In fact, the latest case of an evacuation claim just closed in 1965. That was the last one. Curtiss I just wondered. Let's say your claim was hypothetically one thousand dollars. Would they pro-rate this deduction over a certain number of years? Kanegae You mean for income tax purposes? Curtiss Yes, after the war. Kanegae Gosh, I couldn't tell you. I don't remember. Curtiss Do you have any idea how much yours was? Kanegae It was less than a thousand dollars. Curtiss Now, what did you have in the camp as far as a governing body for the people within the camp? Kanegae Physically the camp was divided into quadrangles--quads--and each quad had four blocks, and one block was composed of a little community. We had the central hot water system, the central laundry, the central shower, bathroom facilities, and central kitchen, a community recreation hall, and the series of barracks. They were long barracks, long buildings; one of them was the recreation hall and one of them was the kitchen. Each block elected a representative to a central government, you might say. They called him the block representative. Theoretically, we were supposed to be a very democratic sort of government. We supposedly had our own police force, fire department, and so forth, manned by the Japanese people. Naturally, as advisor, the government--the Indian Service men--had several people sitting in with us. All these minor rules and regulations needed to govern a group of people like that was made up by these people. Curtiss What kind of power or rule did the police force have over the people? Kanegae Well, generally speaking, the Japanese people were not too violent, so there was very little problem, but we just had a police force. Curtiss I mean, let's say there was a fight, what would happen? Kanegae Well, they would go out and try to stop it. Curtiss I mean, would anyone be brought before a committee because of the ― 13 ―
fight?
Kanegae We had a judge and a court system composed of Japanese people, but most of the court's business was very minor in nature. Anything serious--well, I can't recall any real serious problem. Curtiss So, in general, the United States government let you take care of your own people, then? Kanegae Well, more or less, you might say. Curtiss Do you know who was the police chief? Kanegae Well, we had one man in Poston from Orange County, a fellow by the name of Kiyoshi Shigekawa who was the police chief at that time. Curtiss Did you ever serve as police chief? Kanegae No. I was the respresentative to the central governing house of representatives, or whatever you want to call it. Curtiss What did you do in this capacity? Kanegae I went to the meetings, and whenever there were any problems that came up that we needed to talk about, well, we discussed it and we tried to come up with some solution. Curtiss As far as the chain of command, what did you have? Kanegae Well, the block manager managed the immediate block only. Then they had the block representative who went to the central governing body. The police department was entirely separate. Curtiss How many people would the block manager oversee? Kanegae Well, counting kids and all, probably around one hundred fifty people, more or less. Curtiss So then, a block didn't just consist of one long barrack, it was an area. It was a section, right? Kanegae Yes. Curtiss I see. And were there, let's say, five, six, seven barracks in a block? Kanegae Well, if I recall, there were twelve buildings in all. One of them was the kitchen and dining room and one of them was the recreation hall. There were thirteen, actually, because the thirteenth one was the shower, laundry facilities, and toilet facilities. Curtiss What kind of restrictions did you have as far as the camp was concerned? Did they have any specific marked boundaries that you ― 14 ―
couldn't go beyond?
Kanegae Well, there was a Military Police post on the highway into Parker through which we could not pass, and a barbed wire fence along the highway side of the camp. Curtiss To what extent did the government oversee you, as far as guarding you? Would you say there was a guard posted every thousand yards? Kanegae No. See, actually, Poston is a very inaccessible area. We were in, you might say, mesquite bush country--a rough, primitive area. They had a real inadequate dirt road, but later on some of the boys--they called it the Surveying Department--surveyed for a road. They graded it and built a road, so it wasn't too bad. There was a detachment of MPs posted there, and a few men were there. But as far as patrolling the perimeters of the camps, I think the only time that ever happened was when we had a little riot there. Curtiss Would you care to tell me about that? Kanegae Well, there were a couple of fellows who got picked up by the MPs and thrown in the camp jail. People felt they were unjustly jailed, so that started it. Curtiss I see. How far was this disturbance carried? Kanegae It lasted ten or twelve days. Curtiss Was there any damage of property? Kanegae No, no destruction of property. The only property that you might say got destroyed was the firewood. Even in that area the winters get pretty cold and the nighttime gets awfully cold, so everybody gathered firewood, and they burned all the firewood up at nighttime during the period of trouble. But there was a very uncomfortable situation there. It's amazing that all they did was just gather around, and they had committees demanding certain things, and so forth. Curtiss As part of the administration that you participated in, what role did you play in this? Did you act as a go-between, or whatever? Kanegae You mean during the riot? Curtiss Yes. Kanegae Well, during the riot, we tried to stop it through negotiation. This group--I guess you can call it the Poston City Council--tried to negotiate between the strike leaders, or the riot leaders, and the administration. We tried to bring it to a halt, but we were unable to do it, and as a result, we decided, "Well, we'll just resign." We quit. We just resigned right then and there. ― 15 ―
Curtiss
But it just, more or less, worked itself out? Kanegae Yes. Well, you see, there were a lot of little things that bothered the people--the inconsistencies in the regulations and the inadequacy of certain facilities, and so forth. It wasn't just the people being jailed that caused this. It was the accumulation of these things, discontent, dissatisfaction, and that's what brought it on. Curtiss What kind of coordination was there between the United States government--the guards, the MPs--and your people. Was there a friendly relationship between the two groups? Kanegae Well, as far as contact, there was no direct contact between the MPs and us. Everything was through the Indian Service. Curtiss You mentioned that you had a judge, or a committee, to take care of problems. Was it a standard judicial system, like judge, jury, and attorney? Kanegae Well, we tried to do it that way, but, like I said earlier, nothing really serious ever came up. Small business stuff, I think. I never heard much about it. Curtiss Were there ever any cases when people tried to escape from camp? Kanegae No, there was no place we could go if we did escape. Curtiss Because of the desolateness of the area and the inadequacy of getting in and out of the place, was the road the only way in? Was it in a canyon--this type of situation? Kanegae Well, Parker Indian Reservation was part of the Colorado River drainage system, and it's a valley there along the riverbank, so it is in a valley. It's not mountainous. Curtiss What was the response of the people in the camp when the WRA brought up the idea of being resettled to the east? Was it met with a lot of approval? Or did the people just rather--since they were pushed out of California--not really want to go further away? Kanegae Well, naturally, there were two groups of thought, just like with any other problems. A lot of the younger fellows naturally wanted to get-out, because frankly the existence in Poston, especially, was not very good. So the younger people, especially those who had some ambitions, wanted to leave. And there was a group, even among the younger people, too, that said, "What the heck, let the government take care of us." So there were two trains of thought. Curtiss What would you estimate the number of people to be in your particular camp? Kanegae Well, just from what they told us, we were supposed to have from ― 16 ―
eighteen thousand and five hundred or more in Camp One; I think there were ten or twelve thousand in Camp Two; and about six
or seven thousand in Camp Three.
Curtiss Were there any physical changes within the camp that took place over the period of about a year that you were there? Kanegae Oh, yes. Amazing changes happened. When we came in there first, we were ankle deep in soft dirt. Ditches were cut to lay the pipeline from the diesel fuel tank to the boilers, and that was all exposed. When they built the building, they didn't level the ground at all. They just made long stilts to level the floor and that was all leveled. The people started to put grass and flowers in and made gardens and, naturally, the barracks were fixed up so they would be a little bit more livable. All of us made our own homemade air-conditioning systems and things like that. Curtiss Have you ever been back to the camp site? Kanegae About a year and a half or two years ago, I went down there to look at some agricultural deal. We landed at Blythe, and we drove up on the highway--the highway that the boys from the camp built up to Camp Three from Parker, which has now been extended all the way down as part of the Arizona State Highway. Curtiss What's left of the camp? Kanegae Well, there is an adobe building that the people built for the high school--that's still standing; across the road, on the east side of the highway, there is a big wooden building that was a garage for the motor pool--that too is standing. There was one barrack left in the area that was the administrative section--and that's left. Other than that, it's all gone. It's being farmed right now. Curtiss By Indians? Kanegae No, by non-Indian people. They have a long-term contract lease with the Indian Service to farm there. Curtiss What was you reason for going back there? Was it just to take a look around? I know you mentioned that you were in the vicinity. Kanegae Well, I was in the produce business, and shipping business, and one of my contacts had put a lot of money down there to one of the growers--shippers--and I met him in Palm Springs and picked him up. I'm always looking for new areas, so that's where we went. Curtiss These physical changes that took place--to what extent could the people, say, for recreation or just to pass the time, make physical changes? Was it limited to gardens and grass? Kanegae Not necessarily. People who like to make things, made them. In fact, there was one group of people who started a new industry. ― 17 ―
There was one fellow, an old-timer from Orange County--who, incidentally, still lives here--with natural artistic talent.
So just sitting around with a pocket knife he whittled birds, little birds. Using paint and putting clear fignernail polish
on it and placing a small pin on the back, he made a lapel pin. These beautifully painted birds and stuff, that's one thing.
Then there were those who were artistically inclined, you see, who were just trying to occupy their time.
Curtiss Was there any possibility that this person who you've referred to could have made enough of these lapel pins and birds to sell to the outside people while he was in the camp? Kanegae Not very much. Curtiss What about the farming that took place in the camp? Was it within the boundaries of the camp? Kanegae Yes. See, I think there was a great sociological experiment going on. I was too young to realize it at that time, but looking back over the period of years and the time that I can visualize, I can remember what happened. They had this community enterprise, they had this community farm--you know, everything was community--and theoretically, they promised that if there was any profit, it would revert back to the people--which we all knew would never happen. But that is the way it was. And to me, today, I feel it was a great experiment, and it never was real successful because--just like all these projects of that sort--there was no personal profit involved there. We just got by with as little work as possible. Curtiss What about the products that were produced there? Were they just enough to feed the people in the camp? Kanegae Well, it was mainly used in the camps. Curtiss Was it a pretty variegated assortment of products that were produced? Kanegae In that country there's a certain limit of things that you can grow because of the season, the temperature and so forth. They grew quite a variety of stuff. I left the camp before the agricultural program really was able to produce much of anything. If you are interested in that angle, there is a fellow by the name of Frank Mizusawa who was the head man at that time. He lives in Orange County. Curtiss Yes, I would like to interview Mr. Mizusawa at some future time. What kind of attitude do you feel was necessary to sustain yourself through this? Because you did not know how long it was going to last in actual years, and this was before the WRA came up with their program of resettlement in 1943. What did you feel you had to do to sustain this? Kanegae Do you mean psychologically? ― 18 ―
Curtiss
Yes, without going off your rocker. I mean, after all, it was a degree of prison. Kanegae Well, that's true. There were some people who were mentally disturbed because of this, but I think most of us were pretty flexible and were able to go with the punch and were able to survive and keep our mental health in good condition. The majority of the people tried to occupy themselves doing something. Everybody tried to get a job, not for the monetary reason--not for the twelve, sixteen and nineteen dollars, well, you know, that's ridiculous--but to occupy themselves, and that's what they did. Curtiss And what did you do? Kanegae I ran the employment office. Curtiss Was this by choice? How did you get this job? Kanegae Well, I helped the people over here to get things ready, and naturally I was directly involved with the local employment office, and they said that one of the programs for the camp was to have an employment department. They said, "Why don't you try it?" So that's what I did. Curtiss What about some of the other people? What about your brothers, sisters, mother and father? Did they, more or less, take the same attitude that you did? Kanegae Being Japanese, they say, "Shi-ka-ta-ga-nai," which means "It can't be helped." So they went at it with a healthy attitude, and they got by. Curtiss What about some of the other people in the camp? You mentioned some people that couldn't handle it. Just what happened to them? Kanegae Some of those people, like one particular fellow I'm thinking of, were very unhappy. He was educated--he was teaching in high school, a young fellow, very unhappy. He felt that the government never should have treated citizens in this nature. Well, we all felt the same way; but I guess he felt it a little harder than some of us, and first chance he got, when the opportunity arose, he volunteered for the service. So, it's sad, because he got killed in action. Curtiss Can you say, in any sense, that camp life was pleasant? Kanegae No, it was very unpleasant. Physically, the Poston center was the most inadequately constructed camp. The comforts were not there. We had to sleep on a straw mattress for several months; the first several days in camp the food we had was canned sauerkraut and canned wieners. My two kids were small and they didn't eat anything for three days. They didn't sleep for two nights, and it was hot: 110 to 115 degrees temperature. If somebody came to me at that particular ― 19 ―
moment and irritated me, I fear that I would have lost my temper and would have tried to destroy him. So I would say that,
in general, the camp life itself was very poor.
Curtiss How was the food situation at the outset? Kanegae At first, just a matter of a week to ten days, the camp was totally unprepared. We were shoved in there before it was even finished. Curtiss Who cooked the food? Kanegae Well, if I recall, people volunteered to cook at first--but what can you do? Curtiss As things went on, though, were there dieticians? Kanegae No. A group of people started to work in the kitchen, more or less self-appointed. They volunteered, you know, originally with the idea of helping the people, and then they became the staff that prepared the food. I would say that the government sent plenty of food. Some of it was the type of stuff that we wouldn't eat, like mutton that I don't care for personally, or pickled herring that Japanese, in spite of being fish eaters, couldn't stomach. Curtiss Was cooking in your own barracks allowed? Kanegae Well, you were free to do what you darned well pleased in your place as long as it didn't bother other people. There was some hot plate business going on, but you couldn't buy the food in the first place, so the only things you could buy, like in a community store, were canned fruits, juices, and baby food. Curtiss What about your children? Obviously the younger the children are the more difficult it is for them to eat solid foods like sauerkraut. What did they do? Kanegae When my kids wouldn't eat or sleep the first two or three days, I heard there was a community store open, so I went there and saw Gerber's baby food. So I bought a couple of dozen different kinds and brought them home and got some hot water and made the soup. They drank that and went to sleep. Later we had special food served in the mess hall, like milk and stuff, for the kids, but generally speaking, the older kids ate the regular food that was prepared. We were able to buy specialized food in the community stores for the kids. Curtiss How long was it before things settled down as far as food? Kanegae Probably thirty to forty-five days, and it gradually got better. Curtiss You said that your children went without food for three days. Kanegae They didn't want to eat that food--not sauerkraut and wieners. ― 20 ―
Curtiss
Was this when you got the Gerber's? Was this supplied to the camp because they realized problems would arise for children? Kanegae No, we had to buy it in the community enterprise store, the community store. Curtiss Did they start supplying you with this food along with the other food as time went on--the baby food, I mean? Kanegae Well, not necessarily so. I think that if you had a baby born in camp or you had an infant, you could get a little bit of milk and stuff. But the extent of the mess hall baby food was milk and cereals, and things like that. Curtiss What about animals? What were you allowed to have in camp, or did they supply herds? Were there cows, do you recall? Kanegae I don't recall anything about cows, but I know there were chickens, pigs, and hogs. Curtiss What about goats? Kanegae No, no goats. Not that I heard of. Curtiss Was there anything else in the way of food that you'd like to tell me about? As far as diets, and things grown, and so on. Kanegae As far as food goes, as time went on, it became adequate--a monotonous diet, maybe, but it was adequate. I think, from my point of view, there was very little to complain about after the first several months. Curtiss There wasn't a lack of food? Kanegae No. Curtiss Mr. Kanegae, would you please tell me about the way Japanese Americans came to fight in Italy against the Germans? How was this idea received in camp when it was first brought out? Kanegae Well, naturally, we had an inkling of what was happening. Some of our leaders were talking to the government then in Washington and so forth, and the subject was broached. Naturally, there were two violent opinions--strong opinions! One day a group of men--I think it was a captain, a Caucasian officer, with three or four Nisei [second-generation Japanese Americans] sergeants--came into camp with a batch of questionnaires that all of us were required to answer. One of the questions was "Would you volunteer?" The evidence of the fact that it was fairly well-received was that a large number of volunteers went from the camps. Curtiss Why do you think this was? Do you think it was to literally just ― 21 ―
get out of camp?
Kanegae Well, possibly to some extent. But a lot of the fellows felt that this was war, and it was the only way that we were going to be able to prove ourselves. We'd have to go. Curtiss Do you have any idea where the origin of this plan to have Japanese Americans form their own unit developed? Kanegae I think the Assistant Secretary of War at that time--John J. McCloy--was one of those who thought this thing up, and some of our leaders of Japanese descent thought it was a good idea, too, and I think it was they who pursued the matter to the point where it took effect. I believe that was the origin of the voluntary 100th Battalion, originally, and then the 442nd. Curtiss Was the idea of the draft pretty well-received in camp? Now, I can see where volunteering might have been accepted, but getting right down to drafting--practically making you go, even if you didn't want to--I wonder how this idea was received? Kanegae Well, I don't think anybody was drafted. I think even the 442nd was strictly a volunteer group. Curtiss And outside of the questionnaire, what did you have to go through to, let's say, qualify? Kanegae You had to be physically able and all you did was just go to the Board and volunteer. Curtiss Did they check any of your backgrounds--your family backgrounds, generations back? Kanegae No, I don't think so. Curtiss Were there any problems with people who didn't like the idea--let's say picketing or something like this? Kanegae No. The only thing I can recall were violent discussions--heated discussions among small groups. Curtiss Was there a big push--an advertising push to put the idea of volunteering across in camp? Kanegae Nothing that I really recall. Curtiss Now, as relocation was coming to an end--and I imagine that most of you knew that it was going to end before it did--what were some of the attitudes then about going back into California? Did you feel that most people wanted to go back into California? Kanegae Well, a lot of people didn't, you know. They felt that--especially ― 22 ―
those who had no homes to go back to and no property to go back to--California people really weren't fair to us because we
realized it wasn't just a question of war that we were forced to leave, but due to other reasons. A lot of people felt, "Well,
to heck with it--we're not going to go back to California."
Curtiss Do you know of any that went to Japan, such as the older folks, because of, let's say, hostility toward the American government and people? Kanegae Yes, there were about two shiploads that went back. Curtiss There were? Kanegae But, percentage-wise, it's amazing how little, you know, how small the percentage was. Curtiss Did you and your family have any second thoughts about coming back to California? Kanegae No. This is my home. I have my property here. I came here once before the war was over to see how everything was, and then I came back with my family in 1946. Curtiss Earlier you said you left the camp in 1943 to go to New Mexico. Did you spend three years, then, in New Mexico? Kanegae Yes, we stayed there . . . well, actually, it was a little over two and one-half years. Curtiss What did you do there? Kanegae We farmed. Curtiss In general, how were those of Japanese ancestry treated in New Mexico? Kanegae Well, not bad. We were pretty much left to ourselves. We had a few minor incidents, but it was generally very good. Surprisingly, because the governor of New Mexico at that time made a public statement that he didn't want any of us there. Curtiss He did make a statement that he did not want you there? Kanegae He made a statement publicly that there was no place for us there. But this fellow that I was farming property for was a very close friend of his, and he told him he was all wrong. Curtiss Upon coming back into California in 1946, what was the reaction to the people? Was it pretty well cooled off by then? Kanegae Well, our friends weren't bad, but there were some hotheads that ― 23 ―
were still running around threatening people and stuff like that.
Curtiss What about places to eat or to buy goods? Was there any kind of discrimination? Kanegae The only incident I had was with a tractor company, which incidentally was of German descent, who used to make some peculiar remarks before the war. They told me, "Send a man to buy it--buy the parts you need and bring cash." So we had a pretty loud discussion about it in his private office after that. Curtiss So, financially speaking, there were some burdens, then, as far as paying cash and not getting things on credit? Kanegae Oh, yes! Curtiss Your folks had been in California and probably had been through the discrimination experienced by Japanese through the 1920s and 1930s. How did they feel after the war? Kanegae Well, naturally they were not too happy, but this is their home. After all, they lived eighty percent of their lives here, so . . . Curtiss So they had no second thoughts about leaving California or staying out of California? Kanegae Well, they came back. Curtiss How would you say that the relocation experience affected you and your family? Kanegae Personally, it set us back economically, naturally. But we got some benefits out of it, you might say. Curtiss Educational benefits? Kanegae Well, not so much educational as the opportunity to see different parts of the country. It was not all bad; there were some good parts. We made some good friends down there. But it's hard to say, "This is it," and "This is what we got out of it, and this is what we didn't get out of it." It's very difficult to say that. Curtiss You say you feel that you lost some, financially speaking. Can you estimate what you feel you lost? Kanegae No, it's not just the amount of money one lost, it's the economic steps that one may have gone up during that time. That's the big loss. There are some people who could say, "We lost a certain amount of dollars because of this or that." But personally, I can't. I was in the farming business, and farming itself is always very inconsistent, so it's hard to say. ― 24 ―
Curtiss
You mentioned earlier that there was money in the bank when you left. Was most of this gone by the time you returned? Kanegae It was pretty well depleted. Curtiss So what did you do immediately upon returning? Kanegae Well, we managed to squeeze by. Curtiss I mean, farming is a seasonal business, so I imagine it was difficult. Kanegae Yes, it was very difficult. Curtiss What kind of farming did you do? Kanegae Mainly vegetables, a seasonal crop. Curtiss After relocation was over and you were back in 1946, how did things progress with the farm? I mean, did you have problems selling your produce? Kanegae No, there was no real problem there. The biggest problem was the labor shortage, for one thing. We had a very difficult time getting enough help to grow the crop and harvest it, which was true for a large number of years after that. But as far as selling goes, it was not too much of a problem. Curtiss What do you do now? Kanegae I'm in the produce game--growing, packing and shipping. Curtiss Do you still own the same land that you had before the war? Kanegae No, we've sold a considerable amount of acreage since then. Curtiss What do you have now in the way of acreage? Kanegae Well, we have one area of thirty-three acres--it's in escrow now--which we're selling. And we have one building, and that's about all. Curtiss You mentioned that you have a business in Mexico. Kanegae Yes. Curtiss Do you plan on going down there? Kanegae Well, I commute. Curtiss I mean, you don't plan on living there? Kanegae No. ― 25 ―
Curtiss
I see. Well, Mr. Kanegae, on behalf of the California State College, Fullerton, Japanese American Oral History Project, I would like to thank you very much for granting this interview. It has been an interesting experience talking with you and I'm sure your information and perspectives will be helpful to future students of the Japanese American wartime evacuation. Kanegae I hope so, and you are very welcome. |