Japanese American World War II Evacuation Oral History Project : Part I: Internees
Interview
- Interviewee:
- Kenko Yamashita
- Interviewer:
- Mariko Yamashita and Paul F. Clark
- Subject:
- Department of Justice Internment Camps
Internee Experience - Date:
- August 10, 1978
This is an interview with Reverend Kenko Yamashita for the Japanese American Project of the California State University, Fullerton, Oral History Program. Today's interview is at the Zensuji Buddhist Temple in Los Angeles, California. The date is August 10, 1978. The interviewers are Mariko Yamashita and Paul F. Clark. The interview will be conducted in Japanese with Miss Yamashita acting as the principal interviewer.
Mariko, would you like to begin the interview?
M. Yamashita
Okay. (to interviewee) First, in which part of Japan were you born? Secondly, would you tell us something about yourself before World War II broke out?
K. Yamashita
I was born in Gifu City in Gifu Prefecture. Do you know where Gifu Prefecture is? Do you know Ukai City? The Nagara River runs there.
M. Yamashita
Yes, I do.
K. Yamashita
I'm the second son of the honke [head family] of Ukai.
M. Yamashita
Are you? When did you come to America?
K. Yamashita
I think it was in 1938. I came here after the China war broke out. It was four years before the war between the United States and Japan.
M. Yamashita
Did you start working for the Zensuji Temple soon after your arrival?
K. Yamashita
Yes. It was located on its present site.
M. Yamashita
Did you know that the FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation] had already started listing the Japanese before World War II?
K. Yamashita
Yes, I knew that very well. I was very surprised at that.
Could you tell us what happened? I imagine the Japanese people were surprised.
K. Yamashita
We heard various news reports before the war between Japan and the United States broke out, but most of the Japanese thought Japan would not wage a war against America. [Before the war] the Japanese people who had been sent to the Japanese consulate, banks, and companies here received an order from Japan, and they went back to Japan. First, they [each] sent their wife and children back.
A friend of mine, who was working at a bank, said, "Sensei [minister and/or teacher], you'd better go back to Japan." But our situation was different from theirs. We came here to live. People [who had immigrated] here were not trying to move, so we never thought we would move. I just listened to the news. There is no doubt that a tense atmosphere was growing.
On December 8, 1941--eighth in Japan but seventh here--I taught at a Sunday school at Riverside, [California]. I was only about twenty-eight at that time. I took my wife and child there and taught. I gave my students a break--I don't remember whether it was before noon or after. They went out to their car and listened to their car radio. They came back and said, "Sensei, the war has broke out." I said, "Which countries are fighting?" They said, "Japan and America!" They also told me that Japan had attacked Pearl Harbor. I was surprised but couldn't believe it. I didn't pay much attention to it because I thought it couldn't happen. So I continued teaching as usual. After that, I saw police cars patrolling around the Japanese houses near the school, so I thought it might really have happened. By the evening, people had heard the news, and those who were living near the school gathered.
M. Yamashita
At the Sunday school?
K. Yamashita
Yes. Some of them said that watchmen stood outside. They said all the Japanese would be stopped, so we'd better be careful.
M. Yamashita
How did people react? Were they surprised?
K. Yamashita
We never thought the war would last that long, but Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. We were surprised at the news and that was the only topic of our conversation at that time. I turned the radio on and heard many news reports. I just listened to them but I didn't take it very seriously. I felt like I was just listening to the result of a baseball match. But the Japanese people who just came back from Los Angeles said they [the FBI] had already started arresting the Japanese. So I started worrying. I stayed there at Riverside that night and came back here [to Los Angeles] the next morning. The roads I had passed through the day before seemed like they had turned into an enemy area by the next day. I drove very carefully. When I was driving, I saw two motor cops in the back mirror. I thought I was done for. Both cars approached, one on each side of my car and stopped me, as I expected. Then they asked me to show my license. My license indicated that I was a minister. So they asked, "Are you a minister? We've just received a report that a Japanese is driving. That's why we stopped you. But you are a minister, so there is no trouble." Then they left.
M. Yamashita
I see. When did the FBI start arresting people?
K. Yamashita
They started right on the first day. I happened to be in Riverside, so I didn't know that had happened. On the night after Pearl Harbor was attacked, the Japanese Buddhist Church Federation held a ceremony in Los Angeles. That day falls on the day when Buddha attained enlightenment. When the ceremony was coming to an end,
M. Yamashita
So you were ready for it?
K. Yamashita
Yes. I was ready for it from the beginning. But they came on March 13, 1942. I was tired of waiting so long. (laughter)
M. Yamashita
(laughter) Then you were taken long after Mr. Mukaeda was arrested?
K. Yamashita
Yes. Mr. Mukaeda was before me. I had been playing kendo [Japanese fencing], so they kept their eye on me for that. I was a kendo teacher, so they listed me as a kendo man. I was also teaching at the Japanese language school, which they also put on the list. Both things were on the list, but they didn't list me as a minister. People who just devoted themselves to serving as a minister and didn't play kendo, teach Japanese school, or weren't active in Japanese groups weren't listed.
M. Yamashita
When did the FBI men come to your house?
K. Yamashita
They came in the early morning to the Zensuji Temple.
M. Yamashita
Did they come without notice?
K. Yamashita
No, not a notice. I was on the morning service and reciting sutra [sacred Buddhist scripture]. The FBI men were there, but they didn't come in immediately because I was preaching. When I finished it, they came up to me and said, "We are going to take you and your wife."
M. Yamashita
Your wife, too?
K. Yamashita
Yes, they said they were going to take my wife, too. My wife was also a schoolteacher. We had a baby who was six months old. I said, "Who will take care of our baby?" They stood and looked puzzled. Then they crossed out my wife's name, so she didn't have to go. First, I was taken to the Los Angeles County Jail.
M. Yamashita
How long did you stay there? Did they take you somewhere after that?
K. Yamashita
I stayed there one night and was taken to Tujunga.
M. Yamashita
Where is it?
K. Yamashita
It's near Los Angeles. I was taken there and stayed there for about two weeks.
M. Yamashita
Were you taken there with other Japanese?
K. Yamashita
Yes, with many Japanese. And then to an internment camp at Santa Fe, New Mexico. There we had a hearing. After the hearing, I was put into a group classified as "undesirable enemy aliens." I wasn't an undesirable enemy alien, but they thought I was. They asked us strange questions.
M. Yamashita
What did they ask?
K. Yamashita
They asked various questions.
Could you elaborate on that?
K. Yamashita
They said to me, "Japan made a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor." So I said, "That's what you say. I don't even know whether it was a surprise or not." Then they asked me whether I thought Japan would win the war or not. So I said, "That's absurd, (laughter) who should hope to see his own mother country lose a war?" That was my reaction. But the judge didn't like what I said, and then they changed the subject. They said that I had been playing kendo. Have you ever heard of Kokuryukai--the one led by Toyama Mitsuru sensei?
M. Yamashita
Yes, I have.
K. Yamashita
They asked me whether I was a member of Butokukai because I had been playing kendo. I said, "Yes." They asked me how long I had been a member of the club. I had been a member for about fifteen years. When you start learning kendo, you automatically join Butokukai but you have nothing to do with the club. You just register your name. The judge said that I must have a high position in the club. I said I didn't have that at all. Next they asked me how did I translate Butokukai into English. I said, "I can't translate it into English because it's a particular Japanese word that is difficult to translate into English." At that moment, I was carrying on the conversation in English, and I couldn't translate that word.
There was a Korean foreign student named Kim, who had been graduated from Doshisha University in Kyoto. Korean people had no trouble [being detained], so he was sent there as an interpreter. They said they were going to bring an interpreter, which they did. So I said, "You won't understand what it means even if you ask him." (laughter) He came in there and was asked to translate Butokukai into English. I said, "That word can't be translated into English. That's absurd." Mr. Kim took a concise dictionary from his pocket. I said, "Don't be silly. I often use the dictionary, but I couldn't find any English word for Butokukai." But, can you imagine, he did it!
M. Yamashita
What was the English for it?
K. Yamashita
"Military Virtue Association" in English. He looked up in the dictionary and found "Bu" is translated in English as "military." You know bushi, samurai? (Talking to Clark) Toku is "virtue." And "association" is for Kai. When I looked at the English translation for Butokukai later, it was translated as "Military Virtue Association." I was disgusted at that. It had nothing to do with military, you know.
M. Yamashita
It means martial arts, doesn't it?
K. Yamashita
Right. But the judge asked many questions because he thought I had some relationship with Japan's navy or army. So I said, "That's ridiculous. I have no relationship with them." I belonged to Kokuryukai and played kendo with a sword. So they looked on me as an "undesirable enemy alien." (laughter)
M. Yamashita
What was your impression of the Santa Fe camp? Were you taken there by train? What was it like? You were parted from your wife.
K. Yamashita
It was sad, of course, but wasn't a time to think about them. We were in great numbers so I felt encouraged. I felt badly when we got off the train at a station and found people watching us, and the watchmen [soldiers] stood with guns in their hands.
On the train, we just sat, and the black waiters brought us plates and served nice food. The food was too good. One bad guy was circulating false rumors. He said that in every country a prisoner is served good food before he is put to death. So when the train would arrive in the middle of the desert, we might be lined up and shot to death, one by one. What he said created silence.
M. Yamashita
Did you know that you were being taken to Santa Fe?
K. Yamashita
They [the other Japanese] said that we were probably being taken to Santa Fe; I heard that from them. When we arrived at Santa Fe, I saw a high mountain. They used to put the German war prisoners there in that camp during the First World War. They remodeled it and put in the Japanese.
M. Yamashita
The barracks were already built?
K. Yamashita
Yes.
M. Yamashita
Among the many Japanese in the camp, was there any leader, or did you make up groups to perform certain duties, or anything like that?
K. Yamashita
Yes, we made up a self-government and elected a Japanese governor, who represented the Japanese. There were about fifty in a barrack, each barrack had one leader. There was nothing to do there. All we did was go to the mess hall to eat, and we took walks in the camp. The internees took turns in their duties for such things as sweeping the mess hall.
M. Yamashita
Did the Japanese do their own cooking? Did you eat Japanese food?
K. Yamashita
No, we had pork and beans often. Some Japanese volunteered to cook. They also worked as waiters and served coffee in turn. We just went there and ate. Sixty and seventy year old people put on aprons and worked when their turn came. I was twenty-nine at that time. The ministers were all young. One time the ministers got together and decided not to let the old people work like that. We couldn't stand watching the old people working like that, so the ministers volunteered for the job. We served breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
M. Yamashita
How many Buddhist ministers were there?
K. Yamashita
About twenty altogether. There were Christian and Shinto ministers, too, but we didn't know much about them. Only we [Buddhist ministers] took the job and kept working.
M. Yamashita
Did you have Sunday services?
K. Yamashita
Yes, we did. We always had Sunday services in the mess hall and we ministers preached in turns every Sunday. Many people came and filled the mess hall because they had plenty of free time in the camp. So we preached as hard as we could.
M. Yamashita
Do you know Reverend Herbert Nicholson?
K. Yamashita
Yes, I know him. I have read his book Valiant Odyssey and I have it here.[1]
M. Yamashita
He visited many camps. Do you recall when he visited Santa Fe?
I don't recall him coming and doing anything there.
M. Yamashita
Was there any problem between the people from different places, like California and Hawaii or some other places, because of the pressures they were put under?
K. Yamashita
No, not particularly. For one thing, we all had the same identity and were in the same situation. People who had owned a big business and had high positions became equal there with poor people. Not only that, but our mother country was at war; we had a feeling in common. Of course, there might have been some argument between the individuals but we didn't part into groups, such as from San Francisco, Los Angeles, or Hawaii. They were cooperative.
M. Yamashita
Caucasian soldiers were working in the camp. Did they eat in the same place?
K. Yamashita
No, they did that elsewhere.
M. Yamashita
Did you get along well with them?
K. Yamashita
We didn't have many chances to have any contact with them. The officers had their mess hall, and the Japanese volunteered to cook there. They got along well with each other. There wasn't any serious problem. I'm not sure whether it happened at Santa Fe or not, but a friend of mine who was cooking in the officers' mess hall told one of the officers to try some soy sauce. Then the officer held his nose and said, "Oh, no!" So he [the friend] told me he was going to get him to try it. He soaked the meat in soy sauce and cut it into steak. The officer ate it without knowing, and said, "It's very delicious." He said the steak was more delicious than any steak he'd ever had. This friend of mine said, "It has soy sauce. It serves you right!" He played a trick on him, but they became good friends with each other.
M. Yamashita
How long were you in Santa Fe?
K. Yamashita
For one year in Santa Fe and then I went to Lordsburg, [New Mexico].
M. Yamashita
Did you have any cultural (understood by interviewee as karuta) activity like Shogatsu [New Years celebration] or anything like that? Did a great number of people participate in such an activity?
K. Yamashita
We didn't play karuta [Japanese cards played on New Year's Day] because we didn't have it here. We played go [Japanese game played with black and white stones] and shogi [Japanese chess].
M. Yamashita
Did you bring them to the camp or were they sent in?
K. Yamashita
They were sent. We got our families outside to send them.
M. Yamashita
So was it permitted?
K. Yamashita
Yes. We also played Mah-jongg. Some practiced shooting, No [Japanese dance-drama] chanting, and drawing pictures. Some who were good at English taught English. Some began to learn knitting. Some people picked up stones and polished them. The camp was in the desert so there were hard trees. They polished that type of wood in the camp. Some of them picked up potato net bags, which had been thrown away. They untied them and made cigarette cases, wallets, handbags, and many other things. They applied varnish over them and dried them. They made very nice
M. Yamashita
Did you celebrate New Year's Day? Did you have any special events on the day like making rice cake as they do in Japan?
K. Yamashita
There was no way of making rice cake, but when I was in Crystal City, Texas . . .
M. Yamashita
Was it the third or fourth camp you were taken to?
K. Yamashita
Yes, the fourth. When I was in Crystal City camp in Texas, the head man was Mr. O'Rourke. He understood the Japanese very well and did many things for us. On New Year's Day, he delivered one gallon of sake to us.
M. Yamashita
Where did he get it from?
K. Yamashita
We knew there was sake in America. If he had pretended he didn't know that, we couldn't have had it.[2]
M. Yamashita
So you had sake on New Year's Day.
K. Yamashita
Everybody got drunk and enjoyed it. Crystal City was a family camp.
M. Yamashita
You were together there with your family?
K. Yamashita
Yes, my family was sent there so we could be together. There were only men in the Santa Fe and Lordsburg camps. We lived in barracks and there was nothing else there. All we did was go to the mess hall to eat and come back to the barracks. But in Lordsburg we had beer.
M. Yamashita
Was a canteen there? Did the Japanese sell beer?
K. Yamashita
No, they [the administration] sold it but the Japanese helped them.
M. Yamashita
Did you buy it with tickets?
K. Yamashita
We got it with tickets [scrip] since we didn't have money. They gave tickets to every one of us.
M. Yamashita
So drinking an alcoholic beverage was permitted?
K. Yamashita
Yes, it was permitted. We didn't hide to drink; we did it openly. There was a good canteen and beer bottles were put in array. They didn't have whiskey or other liquors. They just had soft drinks.
I had a rehearing there. My wife had petitioned to have me released and sent to be with her at the Heart Mountain Relocation Center in Wyoming. About two hundred American citizens and Japanese had signed the petition. In the rehearing, they were trying to send me to Wyoming. They said, "I won't change my mind." They said, "If you still insist on what you said, you won't be able to see your family. Don't you want to see them?" Then they asked what I was going to do with my family. I petitioned to send my family to the Crystal City camp in Texas because that was a family camp. Then they permitted me to do that.
M. Yamashita
So you could get together with your family in the fourth camp?
First, Santa Fe, Lordsburg, and then I went back to Santa Fe.
M. Yamashita
Back to Santa Fe again?
K. Yamashita
First, Tujunga, then Santa Fe, Lordsburg, and Crystal City. The Crystal City camp was very good. I heard that the relocation centers had good mess halls, hospitals, and school--grammar through high school. Every camp had educational facilities, and hospitals, and eating places. The Crystal City camp, a Japanese language school was also built, but there weren't enough textbooks. So the teachers took textbooks and copied them for the school kids--grammar through high school students. So they learned Japanese there. They used the printing facilities and papers in the office.
M. Yamashita
How long were you in the Crystal City camp?
K. Yamashita
About two years.
M. Yamashita
Then you stayed there as long as you were in Santa Fe?
K. Yamashita
Yes, overall, half in Santa Fe and half in Crystal City.
M. Yamashita
Did many Japanese who had been in the Santa Fe camp go to Crystal City with you?
K. Yamashita
Yes, we went there in a group.
M. Yamashita
We heard that there was some kind of a riot in Lordsburg.
K. Yamashita
Oh, yes. The man in charge of that happening was Mr. Yaemitsu Sugimachi, a best friend of mine.
M. Yamashita
Was he? Is he still well?
K. Yamashita
No, he passed away. He was a governor at that time. What was going on was, they tried to take the Japanese for work. That caused the trouble because some of the internees didn't like being forced to work.
M. Yamashita
How did the administration people react?
K. Yamashita
Watchmen guards stood in front of the barracks with guns in their hands. They just stood and watched. They didn't show any feeling of animosity and they didn't attack them. Sugimachi was put into a special place because he was a governor and in charge of the incident. They put him [Sugimachi] on good behavior. They didn't throw stones or break anything. He [Sugimachi] was taking a nap there. I left for Santa Fe while it was on.
One day the Japanese sailors who had been taken as war prisoners put up a Japanese flag over the barracks. They had asked somebody to sew two sheets together, which they did. They drew on it a red circle in ink or something, and then they put the flag over the barrack.
M. Yamashita
So they raised a Japanese flag in the camp? Was this at Lordsburg?
K. Yamashita
Yes, it was at Lordsburg. The watchmen [soldiers] came and tried to pull it down. Then the officer told the Japanese governor that even an American flag couldn't be put up. He explained that the camp was kind of an international or neutral place;
M. Yamashita
So they got along well.
K. Yamashita
At Lordsburg and Crystal City; especially Crystal City was good. But because Manzanar and Tule Lake were relocation camps, they had troubles.
M. Yamashita
Did you hear about what was going on in the other camps?
K. Yamashita
Yes, I did.
M. Yamashita
What did you hear?
K. Yamashita
We thought, "They were young, and vigorous, and troublesome." Nisei are American citizens, so they complained of being put into camps. While the Japanese [Kibei] who spoke Japanese well despised America. I can't judge whether they were right or wrong but that's the way they felt at that time. The life in the camps where I stayed for four years wasn't a pleasant one, of course. I had no freedom to go outside. But, considering I was in the enemy's country during the war, I admit we were protected for the time being and we had enough facilities there. After the war was over and the American occupation of Japan ended, Japanese began to express many of their opinions. Many visited America and wrote articles in magazines that the Japanese had been deprived of their freedom in the camps, things like that. But I can't look at it as they did. Some Nisei and Sansei complained about it, too, saying it was unfair to intern Japanese, especially Nisei. My American friends also said, in retrospect, they thought it was an injustice. It might have been an injustice if it had happened in peacetime. Some of the things America did went too far, of course. We had many bitter experiences. But a hundred thousand people--people who came from different places--they put them together, and they could live together with their family.
M. Yamashita
When you got together with your family, your baby was two or three years old.
K. Yamashita
We had a house in Crystal City.
M. Yamashita
One house for one family?
K. Yamashita
Yes, every family had one house. We had an icebox just like this. (Points to a wooden box in the room)
We cooked what we liked. The houses weren't big but good enough to live in. There also was a special house for those who were expecting a baby. They took care of them before a delivery and after it. Crystal City camp was perfectly equipped.
M. Yamashita
What about the other camps?
K. Yamashita
I don't know much about them.
M. Yamashita
How about Santa Fe?
K. Yamashita
There were only men in Santa Fe and Lordsburg. We had only barracks. The beds were set side by side and there was a shelf for each person where we put our clothes and cigarettes.
Going back to Crystal City, did you get Japanese food from outside and cook it?
K. Yamashita
No, the food was given. We got tickets [scrip] and used them as money. If there were two adults in a family, they gave them just as much as two could live on, but nothing more than that. So we couldn't buy anything special.
Japanese farmers couldn't sit and just watch it [the barren soil], so they put gardens in front of their houses. They grew eggplants and cucumbers; so sometimes we had fresh cucumbers.
M. Yamashita
Did they give some of the food to others?
K. Yamashita
Yes, but not much. We could get most of our food at the canteen. They gave us tickets to buy clothes, too. There was a department-like store where they sold women's coats and stuff like that. Suppose the price was fifty dollars for one item, we couldn't buy it because we received just forty. In that case, we saved up and bought it the next month.
M. Yamashita
Was the Crystal City camp the last one you were put into? Did you come back here after that?
K. Yamashita
I went back to Japan after that, and I stayed there for ten years.
M. Yamashita
Did you go back right after you left the camp? Was it permitted without any trouble?
K. Yamashita
Not any trouble. They said there was a ship going to Japan and they could board us if we wished. So I went back free.
M. Yamashita
Did your family go back with you?
K. Yamashita
Of course, they did. I had something to do at my temple in Japan, so I went back. Mr. O'Rourke said, "There is no food and no fuel in Japan now, so you'd better not go back." He tried to stop us. When we were going back, he said, "It's cold in Japan now. I'll give you some blankets to take with you to Japan." So we took the blankets. They turned out to be very handy.
M. Yamashita
Did many Japanese go back by the same ship?
K. Yamashita
There were many.
M. Yamashita
Did the rest of them go back to where they used to live?
K. Yamashita
Most of them stayed at their acquaintances' house for awhile, but many came back to Los Angeles after that.
M. Yamashita
So you were in the camp for a total of four years. How do you feel about that in retrospect? Do you think the American government did an adequate thing?
K. Yamashita
I don't know whether they did an adequate thing or not, but I think that's all they could do. I see it that way. It might not have been the best way.
M. Yamashita
What did the other Japanese people who were there say about it?
There was no one who was always blue and complaining. They rather enjoyed themselves. There was nothing else we could do except to try to enjoy the life, in a way, don't you think? I guess you haven't had that experience. We had housing, enough food, enough time, and did what we wanted without worrying about going out to work. If we became ill, we could go to the hospital right away. Children could go to school. There was a good public school and good teachers in Crystal City. We didn't have to pay tuition for our kids. There were some Japanese who became No chant teachers. We had plenty of time to do what we liked. Some people became good in English. Some studied Buddhism and became well-acquainted with it. They knew better than the ministers did. (laughter) I was lazy so I didn't do anything, but one teacher made up a tanka [Japanese poetry] club. He told me to join the club. I hadn't composed a tanka before, but he pushed me to join them. So I joined them and wrote some tanka.
M. Yamashita
In which camp did you do that?
K. Yamashita
In Crystal City. Here is a collection of tanka I'll show you.
M. Yamashita
Were those tanka written by the people in the camp? Did you have all the printing facilities there? Did those people get started in the camp?
K. Yamashita
Yes, they got it started there. Dr. Motokazu Mori was a leader and he was a friend of Yanagihara Byakuren and Tsuchiaya Bunei [renowned poets of Japan]. Do you know about the New Year's poetry party at the Imperial Court?
M. Yamashita
Yes, the one held every year?
K. Yamashita
Some of their tanka were selected and they were invited to the party.
M. Yamashita
Were they the people in the camp?
K. Yamashita
Yes, they started to learn and kept making tanka after the war. Then they sent them to Japan and some of them were selected for the contest.
M. Yamashita
(Looking at the collection) This tanka describes the camp well. Can I take a look at this after this interview? Did many people practice kendo or the like? Did you have a gymnasium or a place where you could practice it?
K. Yamashita
Yes, we had. Boy scouts and girl scouts also used the place.
M. Yamashita
How did the Caucasian people, such as guards and others, spend their time?
K. Yamashita
They came from outside and went back after their work.
M. Yamashita
Didn't they play games or anything with you?
K. Yamashita
It wasn't permitted, so we didn't have that chance.
M. Yamashita
Did Christian missionary people come to see any internees?
K. Yamashita
They talked with them individually. They talked with the representatives of the people [internees]. They met each other in a special place. I recall one interesting story. We had much meat in the Crystal City camp. Japanese people don't eat much meat, so we left it. The watchmen [guards] and the sergeants found it, so we gave them the meat and they took it back home. America rationed the meat supply during
M. Yamashita
In return for the meat?
K. Yamashita
Yes. He said his wife made it.
M. Yamashita
I imagined there was a food shortage in the camp. So there wasn't any shortage there?
K. Yamashita
Not a shortage; we had too much. I'll tell you one story about what we did with the leftover food. At Crystal City they gave one quart of milk for each adult, and for each two children another quart.
M. Yamashita
Was that the supply for one day?
K. Yamashita
Yes, it was. The Japanese didn't drink much milk, so milk was left over. Japanese have tea and eat rice. We grew morning glories and ivy well because the weather was hot there. One day someone put milk on them. Then we received a notice that said, "Milk is not a good fertilizer for the plants." That's one story and the other is about the meat. We didn't have to keep such food because they gave us more the next day. So we threw it away.
M. Yamashita
It sounds like quite a waste.
K. Yamashita
Yes, indeed, but we had no choice but to throw it away since we couldn't eat it all. We were going to give it to our neighbor, but they also had too much. Then we threw it into a garbage can. People said the Japanese wasted meat, but we couldn't help it. Then the Japanese governor warned us not to waste such food.
M. Yamashita
Your baby had enough then?
K. Yamashita
We had enough baby food. We didn't have to worry about the kids. We had a good hospital, and a fair number of the Japanese doctors were working there. We were treated free. The doctors didn't have to make a profit, so they took good care of us. We were not pressed with time, so someone went to see them even if he had a slight headache.
M. Yamashita
Were all the doctors Japanese?
K. Yamashita
Yes. There were many Japanese, so, naturally, some of them were doctors. Mori, who I mentioned before, was a doctor, too. He was a good doctor. He had been a doctor of medicine in Japan as well. He has passed away now. He came from Honolulu. He was a fine person. Some of the people in Crystal City camp were from Peru.
M. Yamashita
How many people from Peru were there?
K. Yamashita
Many came from Peru. America put pressure on Peru to expel the Japanese. They expelled them from the country, and they came by ship to America. Then they arrested them as illegal aliens and put them into the camp.
M. Yamashita
I see. Were many Japanese born and raised in Peru?
K. Yamashita
Yes. Peru had a different culture. They had a Spanish culture.
Did you have any trouble with them in the camp because of their different customs?
K. Yamashita
No, we didn't. Japan's Ministry of Education had sent Japanese teachers to Peru, and they had a Japanese education before the war. The Japanese schools in Peru had a better education system than the ordinary public schools in Peru did. The teachers were also put into the camp. But the Japanese people from Peru seemed like they didn't know how to fry bacon. The kids spoke Spanish but they also spoke clear Japanese. They spoke Japanese more accurately than American Nisei, and they were more like Japanese.
M. Yamashita
Did the teachers who came from Peru teach Japanese in the camp?
K. Yamashita
Yes, they did.
M. Yamashita
Did the teachers teach only children from Peru or did they teach all the children?
K. Yamashita
They taught all the children. As a matter of fact, I taught one class of twenty kids who were from Peru. They were honest students. They reminded me of students in the old days. Not like today's students. (laughter) Postwar students are dishonest.
M. Yamashita
They don't listen to their teachers much?
K. Yamashita
Far from that, they don't look up to them as teachers. We didn't look on them as they do now.
M. Yamashita
Did the children from Hawaii also study Japanese?
K. Yamashita
Hawaiian kids spoke Japanese better than Nisei from the mainland, but Peruvian students were best.
M. Yamashita
So the teachers from different places got together and taught Japanese.
K. Yamashita
We had morning gatherings and swore [allegiance], "We are Japanese." Then we went to the class. When techo setsu [the emperor's birthday] came on April 29, we put up a Japanese flag and sang the Japanese anthem.
M. Yamashita
It sounds just like what they did in the old days.
K. Yamashita
Exactly. The teachers themselves were educated under the old school system. The head people of the administration office knew what we did but they didn't interfere with us. They were very generous.
M. Yamashita
So you didn't feel displeased with the administrators because of any tight surveillance or anything like that?
K. Yamashita
No. Nisei there said that the American teachers understood them better than their stubborn Issei teachers.
M. Yamashita
You said that when you went back to Japan, the people there thought you had experienced a hard time in the camp. Is that right?
K. Yamashita
They were surprised at my story.
M. Yamashita
You mean they thought you had a much harder time than you actually had?
Looking at our situation from the standpoint of the international law of war, we were not regarded as war prisoners, but semiprisoners of war. It said we should be treated the same as they treat the soldiers and sailors of an enemy country. Japan treated war prisoners right at the start of the war, but as conditions in the country got worse, they couldn't do anything but find food for themselves. Besides, the people were from an enemy country, so they would have been treated worse than those here who were citizens or residents.
M. Yamashita
Than you were treated in this country?
K. Yamashita
I didn't have any hard time at all. I would have something to say about our situation, judging it in terms of legal rights. But, thinking about the situation, I can't see that what they did to us was inhumane. I told them that when I went back to Japan.
M. Yamashita
Did many Japanese people ask you about it?
K. Yamashita
Yes, it was just about the time they wanted to know. So I was just like a television star. Everyone wanted me to talk about it.
M. Yamashita
In retrospect, what do you think about the camps and your internment?
K. Yamashita
In retrospect, I think I had more pleasant memories than unhappy ones. Does it sound strange if I say pleasant memories?
M. Yamashita
Well, considering what happened during the war . . .
K. Yamashita
Yes, but considering it was wartime, I spent a good time. It's true that at first I thought we might be killed and I worried about my family. But you worry about them if you are away from home even now, don't you? We just worried more about them. The life there was a healthy one and we weren't suppressed unfairly. There was no other way they could choose but to do that. I look at it this way.
M. Yamashita
Your family was left behind when you were first taken. Then they were sent to a relocation camp, and you couldn't get together there with them. What happened to your household goods? Who took care of them?
K. Yamashita
Yes, my family was detained, too. The rest of the Japanese of the West Coast went at about the same time. They were allowed to take a big suitcase with them, as much as they could carry. They weren't allowed to take more, so they left a lot of stuff. We had no choice but to leave it since everybody had to go. We left our stuff in our house and locked all the doors. But a burglar stole many things because no one was there. We didn't have much stuff, but the fishermen had ships and the farmers had big farms and tools. People took mean advantage of them and bought their stuff as cheap as dirt. So they might have a grudge against them. But we didn't have much stuff from the beginning. Having no treasure helped. (laughter) It's true all the fortune they had made, in some instances over a forty- or fifty-year period, was gone suddenly.
M. Yamashita
I imagine they were so shocked when they heard they were to be evacuated.
K. Yamashita
Yes, they were, indeed. After the war, many went back to where they had lived and started all over again. They led a better life than they had before the war. I think the Japanese people had guts.
They made a great effort.
K. Yamashita
Yes, it was the last major effort the Issei made. Fortunately, the Nisei grew up soon and Americans didn't treat them badly. They rather helped them. But people thought the Japanese did espionage.
M. Yamashita
Such a rumor spread?
K. Yamashita
I heard lots of rumors. They once told me, "You must be a spy." (laughter) As far as I know, among the Japanese, no one did such a thing.
M. Yamashita
Because America was the place to live for them?
K. Yamashita
Yes, they had come here to live. So they [Japanese residents] didn't commit sabotage or spy at all. I don't know whether there were any professional spies or not. Every country has some. As far as people like from Terminal Island are concerned, I don't think they did such a thing because they were fishermen. The Japanese who lived in America never did that. You can't blame us for loving Japan and wanting Japan to win the war. But somebody in camp said Japan would lose the war. He said that because he thought Japan couldn't win if it fought against America. He said that because he really thought that, not because he didn't like Japan. In a sense, the Japanese who lived in America were guileless. And the Japanese--the Issei--had guts to regain the strength they had before the war. But the number of those Issei is decreasing. Most of them have passed away.
M. Yamashita
They built a Japanese community.
K. Yamashita
They laid a foundation.
M. Yamashita
You have been very informative. Would you like to add anything to your thoughts?
K. Yamashita
I think the postwar generation in Japan have a different view from the prewar generation. Prewar Japanese, in a way, didn't know much about America. In the postwar period, the Japanese have had a chance to know about America and are told about America, but they don't know much about America. I think they don't know better than we did. The Japanese have a peculiar preference, including me, they care about brand names. Japan has a long history, but America is a young country. So they [in Japan] tend to neglect new things and values such as are in America. They snatch at famous French things or German. Tourists can visit America often, but they say nothing impresses them in America. I think they are making a mistake in what they say.
The watchmen [guards] and sergeant understood how we felt. They tried to avoid anything that might upset us. They were not trying to suppress us by force. They gave us sake on New Year's Day because they knew that's a special day for Japanese. They gave us blankets when we were going back to Japan. They said we could change our mind anytime and stay in America. Japanese tourists today don't understand that aspect. They say, "Disneyland is great," or "America is large." Everybody in Japan knows that. They say Americans dress untidily and look sloppy. But I wish they could see that American people think much of others. They [the postwar generation] overlook the best in the American people in spite of their frequent visits to America. That's what I think.
I see. On behalf of the California State University, Fullerton, Oral History Program, Japanese American Project, I thank you for your frank expressions of your ideas.
K. Yamashita
You are welcome.
Courtesy of Meckler
http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=ft18700334&brand=oac4
Title: Japanese American WW II Evacuation - Part I: Internees
Date: 1991
Contributing Institution: Meckler
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